Pro Wrestling Forever Ep. 06

Professional wrestling history is filled with moments that changed everything, but few are as fascinating as the persistent rumors that Ric Flair could have joined WWF in 1988. In the debut edition of Into the Wrestleverse, Professor Degree and Blade Daily examine what might have happened if "The Nature Boy" had made the jump before Ted Turner's purchase of Jim Crockett Promotions later that year. Would Turner have still invested in wrestling without Flair as the centerpiece? Would WCW have ever emerged as a national powerhouse? And what would become of stars like Sting, Lex Luger, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, and the Four Horsemen if the industry's most recognizable champion had headed north?

The conversation follows the ripple effects across the entire wrestling landscape, from Hulk Hogan's WWF and WrestleMania to the eventual Monday Night Wars and beyond. Along the way, Degree and Daily blend wrestling history, fantasy booking, nostalgia, and analysis to build a believable alternate timeline where one move changes decades of professional wrestling. Whether you're a fan of classic wrestling, vintage territories, wrestling trivia, or simply enjoy debating the biggest "what if?" scenarios in the industry's history, this first trip Into the Wrestleverse offers plenty to discuss and even more to imagine.

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• Transcript

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  Hello, wrestling fans.

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  I'm your host, the Toast of the Third Coast, Professor Degree.

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  With me as always, the host of our sister show, your second favorite podcast, Sit Down,

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  Shut Up, Mark Out, I, Blade, Daily.

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  This is Pro Wrestling Forever.

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  Blade, how you doing today?

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  It's my first favorite podcast.

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  But I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to them.

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  It's their second favorite podcast.

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  There's one person who would think it's better.

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  You, hmm?

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  There's one. Yeah, there's one.

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  Your mom doesn't count.

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  So today, today's episode takes place at the Crossroads,

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  where quantum physics meet Jim Crockett promotions.

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  Today's episode of Pro Wrestling Forever is the first in a series

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  titled Into the Wrestleverse.

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  Verse, verse, verse.

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  I was thinking you would do that in post.

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  So now.

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  Let me give you the setup.

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  August 29th, 1988, the very first Summer Slam was held.

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  Main event featured Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage,

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  the Mega Powers versus the Mega Bucks, Ted DiBiase and Andre the Giant.

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  Special guest referee was none other than Jesse the Body Ventura.

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  So this is the first Summer Slam.

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  It's a follow up to WrestleMania four,

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  which was held the previous March and featured a one night

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  tournament for the vacated WWF Championship,

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  in which Randy Savage defeated Ted DiBiase in the finals.

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  The title had been held up due to some shenanigans.

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  I'll allow you to peruse the interwebs and find that out on your own.

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  But here's the crux of the biscuit.

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  There's been rumors for years which were eventually confirmed

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  by various people in the wrestling industry that Vince McMahon

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  had made a play for Ric Flair.

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  He wanted Flair to show up

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  at Summer Slam 88 to leave the NWA,

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  where he had been the champion for a number of years.

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  We think this event, if it would have happened, would have had.

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  I don't know, seismic universe shaping repercussions.

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  So we're going to get into that.

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  We're going to take some questions from you

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  and we're just going to kind of discuss and do some fantasy booking.

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  And, like, basically just make a bunch of shit up

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  like a couple of fucking fanboys.

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  Blake? Yeah, no.

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  Well said.

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  We are going to be talking about what I believe would have been

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  a cataclysmic event in the world of pro wrestling,

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  because the more we pulled this apart, the more we realized

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  how much it would affect literally everyone else.

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  We should also mention that the sources for this are Ric Flair

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  and Bruce Prichard, two guys with a pretty bad

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  command of the truth.

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  So Ric Flair had said that.

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  So basically what the reason Flair was available

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  was that Jim Crockett promotions wasn't paying him on time.

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  They weren't paying anyone on time.

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  Everyone's contract had been voided, essentially,

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  because they'd all been breached because they weren't being paid on time.

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  However, unlike ECW, they still were being paid.

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  So Flair was free to negotiate with whoever he wanted.

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  Vince McMahon understood this and tried to reach out to Rick.

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  There was a little back and forth.

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  And what Flair said was.

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  He stayed with what became WCW

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  because he understood that Jim Crockett had promised Ted Turner

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  that Ric Flair was going to be part of the deal,

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  and he felt an obligation to stay.

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  I don't know how true any of that is, but the rumor

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  is that for a long time, I've heard that Ric Flair,

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  Vince wanted Ric Flair to show up on the Brother Love Show

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  as a special guest at SummerSlam 88.

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  Wow. Yeah.

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  So and I think with the recent death of Ted Turner

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  and a lot of the discussions surrounding him, again,

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  that kind of puts a little more a little more weight on this.

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  It kind of gives you a little more perspective, I guess.

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  And the role that Ted Turner really played in professional wrestling,

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  I don't think it's

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  I don't think it's outlandish to say that if he was not involved,

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  pro wrestling would be hugely different.

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  We're going to kind of get into this now.

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  So what do you want to get into?

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  You want to get into SummerSlam first?

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  Or do you want to get into the state of the you kind of gave us

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  the state of the NWA?

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  Well, well, actually,

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  so you have the state of WWF first, right, which is

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  Savage is the champion.

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  Hogan is off filming No Holds Barred. Right.

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  He's still headlining every major pay per view.

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  There's only four at the time, so it's easier to do.

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  Actually, there's four.

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  This is yeah, there's three.

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  This is there's three because the Royal Rumble isn't a pay per view yet.

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  So Hogan is still really

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  Savage is keeping this belt warm for Hogan. Right.

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  But there's really only one main guy in WWF at this time,

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  and it's Hulk Hogan and Macho Man, Rady Savage.

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  Honestly, the house business holds up really well while he's champion.

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  A lot of people are very impressed with how he does his world champion

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  because the Macho Man was fucking awesome.

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  And that's this.

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  This is a trend you see all the way until today in the WWF or WWE.

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  It's this is the guy on top.

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  And then this is the guy that everybody actually wants to be on top.

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  But he's not going to be on top because this is the guy on top.

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  I can't speak for all the fans,

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  but I can tell you that in 1988, when I was a little kid riding the bus,

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  all the older kids loved Randy Savage and they were already done with Hulk Hogan.

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  So whether it be John Cena and CM Punk

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  or whether it be Roman Reigns and Bryan Danielson

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  just keeps saying or Roman Reigns and I don't know, name

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  a lot of people.

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  It was, you know, just a thing that goes on.

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  It's how Hulk Hogan has been templated by Vince McMahon

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  over and over to varying degrees of success.

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  I would say maybe the best template is like John Cena.

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  For sure. The worst template was pre

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  pre heel turn Roman Reigns.

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  Yeah, just a guy not meant to be that, you know, or like,

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  might be the other runner up for that. Yeah.

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  So, yeah, so we have that's kind of the situation in the WWF,

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  but we also have in Jim Crockett Promotions.

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  Rick Flair is arguably the same guy.

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  He is the top guy without a doubt.

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  He's barely a heel because the crowd cheers him constantly.

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  All right. He is the he is the fucking man.

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  And before Rick Flair was a fucking pathetic shell

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  of a human being threatening to sue his own son publicly

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  and passing out in the streets of Florida.

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  So much so that there's a subreddit dedicated to people

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  sharing their experiences of encountering this.

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  He was one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

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  That was the man.

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  That's an immutable fact.

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  OK, I don't like Richard Fleer.

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  Rick Flair was the fucking man.

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  And no matter who won the belt from him,

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  they were just keeping it warm for him to.

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  But he lost it a little more than Hogan did.

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  So which was to say that Hogan did not lose it

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  for like five years straight. Right.

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  This is the first I mean, Savage picking the belt up.

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  He's the next guy after Hogan.

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  It goes four years after Hogan won it first.

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  Yeah, is Randy Savage.

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  So but Flair has a couple title reigns

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  the last like two or three years.

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  And that's just and that's just WWF's way of doing business.

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  Pedro Morales did the same thing.

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  Bruno San Martino is the same thing.

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  Bob Backlund, those guys, they just held the belt for four or five years.

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  That was just the way it was back then. Right.

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  So that's not, you know, and it also contrasts there.

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  The booking difference between Crockett and and WWF,

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  which is Crockett booked for heat and Vince booked for the big baby faces.

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  You know, he booked to bring to make to have you leave feeling good.

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  Whereas Crockett booked to have you fucking pissed

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  and want to see that guy get his ass kicked. Right.

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  You're paying money to show up to watch that guy get his ass beat next month.

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  Yeah. So in the 80s, Flair loses the title to Harley Race.

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  He wins it back at the first arcade.

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  He loses it to Dusty Rhodes, wins it back three days later.

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  He loses it to Kerry Von Erich.

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  He wins it back two weeks later.

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  And finally, fucking the greatest champion of the 80s,

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  besides Flair Ron Garvin, he beats him.

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  Ron Garvin never defends the title once while he's champion,

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  gets a special exception from the NWA not to defend it,

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  then loses it in a cage match to Flair at Starcade 87.

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  Then Flair loses it to Ricky Steamboat for two months after that

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  and wins it back.

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  Meanwhile, Hogan held the belt for five years.

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  Yeah. Hogan is the champion the entire that entire time.

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  So anyway, here we are.

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  Do you want to do want to look at the chat or do you want to go straight in?

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  Yeah, let's jump into the chat before we go deep into the wrestlers.

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  Well, here's Antoine makes you already think if one of the greatest

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  80s feuds in 89 had never happened.

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  Well, Antoine, that's actually what we're going to be talking about,

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  but we're going to get there.

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  Skewered Universe asks, am I the only one that hated Brother Love?

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  You are not the only one.

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  You were supposed to hate Brother Love.

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  I mean, he was he he's actually hilarious parody of televised

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  televangelism, in my opinion.

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  But yeah, I was supposed to hate him.

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  I hated him.

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  I didn't I mean, I even I got that as a kid,

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  but I still just thought he was fucking irritating.

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  What's interesting is now I appreciate Brother Love,

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  but goddamn Bruce Prichard, like Bruce Prichard.

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  I can't stand that, dude.

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  Yeah, I cannot stand him.

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  Bleary Lines says it's kind of a miracle that Flair turned out how he did,

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  mostly since at least from a purely wrestling perspective,

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  Flair was pretty honorable in wrestling.

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  I guess I don't really know that much about him, but that sounds right.

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  I mean, yeah, if he said he was going to be there, he was there.

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  Right. I mean, he knew how to maintain his position

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  and play politics like everybody, but that's just wrestling.

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  You know, yeah.

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  So but yeah, I mean, I mean, that's the thing.

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  Yeah, he was pretty much staying with Crockett.

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  I don't know.

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  Maybe not as a favor, but like,

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  you know, it was the right thing to do.

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  It was a handshake deal.

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  Are we putting up that one or no?

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  Yeah, Bruce can suck a fat infected one from a skewered.

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  00:10:59.830 --> 00:11:00.470

  Yeah, I agree.

  215

  00:11:00.830 --> 00:11:04.190

  And then Book says, I have no idea what we are talking about.

  216

  00:11:04.310 --> 00:11:06.890

  Looks like it's going to get even more confusing.

  217

  00:11:07.170 --> 00:11:08.250

  Well, here's the thing.

  218

  00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:10.470

  Books, we're making an offer to you live on the air.

  219

  00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:15.450

  We want you to come on the show next week with us and review

  220

  00:11:15.450 --> 00:11:18.690

  SummerSlam 88, the real one that actually happened.

  221

  00:11:18.850 --> 00:11:23.890

  We want you to come watch that show with us because you've never seen it.

  222

  00:11:24.010 --> 00:11:26.070

  You'll have no idea who any of these people are.

  223

  00:11:26.090 --> 00:11:29.070

  And we want your impressions of who they are.

  224

  00:11:29.330 --> 00:11:31.750

  And we want your impression of Randy Savage.

  225

  00:11:31.970 --> 00:11:33.170

  Yes, we do.

  226

  00:11:33.710 --> 00:11:35.790

  So, Books, hopefully you'll join us next week.

  227

  00:11:37.170 --> 00:11:38.130

  So back to the show.

  228

  00:11:38.710 --> 00:11:39.590

  SummerSlam 88.

  229

  00:11:40.170 --> 00:11:43.090

  So, OK, so let's say he shows up. Yep.

  230

  00:11:43.810 --> 00:11:44.990

  He shows up on Brother Love.

  231

  00:11:45.010 --> 00:11:50.230

  And then typical WWF at the time is to do a bunch of vignettes,

  232

  00:11:50.650 --> 00:11:54.330

  whether it's Dusty Rhodes delivering pizza or Vader bouncing on a trampoline.

  233

  00:11:54.650 --> 00:11:56.610

  That's kind of like the standard thing.

  234

  00:11:56.790 --> 00:11:59.150

  You know what the fuck I'm talking about?

  235

  00:12:00.010 --> 00:12:01.990

  So they probably would have done that.

  236

  00:12:02.110 --> 00:12:04.130

  You probably would have seen him

  237

  00:12:04.690 --> 00:12:07.410

  doing some lifestyles of the rich and famous shit, I'm guessing.

  238

  00:12:09.370 --> 00:12:11.150

  Which begs a bigger question.

  239

  00:12:11.290 --> 00:12:14.830

  What happens to Ted DiBiase at that point?

  240

  00:12:14.830 --> 00:12:16.030

  Get into that in a minute.

  241

  00:12:16.430 --> 00:12:17.470

  Unless you want to get into it now.

  242

  00:12:18.210 --> 00:12:19.790

  This is the butterfly effect.

  243

  00:12:20.230 --> 00:12:23.710

  And boy, it is big because Ted DiBiase.

  244

  00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:27.670

  OK, so they say that a parent, I think Pritchard actually said

  245

  00:12:27.670 --> 00:12:30.830

  that the million dollar man is the gimmick Vince McMahon would be

  246

  00:12:30.830 --> 00:12:32.230

  if he could be a pro wrestler.

  247

  00:12:32.230 --> 00:12:34.750

  That's why I told DiBiase to sell it to him to sell it to him.

  248

  00:12:34.830 --> 00:12:37.550

  Right. But DiBiase, at least, you know,

  249

  00:12:38.070 --> 00:12:41.850

  is drawing from the same well that Flair would be drawing from.

  250

  00:12:41.890 --> 00:12:44.170

  The rich guy, the aristocrat, the asshole

  251

  00:12:45.050 --> 00:12:47.050

  took it down a different path than Flair did.

  252

  00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:50.790

  But do you need Ted DiBiase when you have Ric Flair?

  253

  00:12:51.330 --> 00:12:54.490

  Because when Flair shows up, when does Flair actually show up in the WWF?

  254

  00:12:54.690 --> 00:12:55.310

  Ninety one.

  255

  00:12:56.050 --> 00:13:00.230

  And DiBiase just kind of gets shuffled off into the background,

  256

  00:13:00.530 --> 00:13:03.370

  which he kind of was already fading away.

  257

  00:13:03.650 --> 00:13:04.650

  But it was already over.

  258

  00:13:04.650 --> 00:13:08.490

  I mean, you know, it ran the usual course that anybody

  259

  00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:11.270

  in that top heel position had at the time.

  260

  00:13:11.550 --> 00:13:12.850

  You don't stick around for too long.

  261

  00:13:12.950 --> 00:13:16.130

  So let's say they do this. They're running vignettes.

  262

  00:13:18.610 --> 00:13:21.830

  It's worth noting that in real life, in this timeline,

  263

  00:13:22.550 --> 00:13:24.950

  in October, which is just two months later,

  264

  00:13:25.410 --> 00:13:30.010

  Aaron Anderson and Tully Blanchard show up in the WWF as a team.

  265

  00:13:30.090 --> 00:13:32.190

  This really happened in real life.

  266

  00:13:32.410 --> 00:13:33.630

  What's the reason why?

  267

  00:13:34.190 --> 00:13:37.570

  Because they were being vastly underpaid

  268

  00:13:37.570 --> 00:13:40.630

  and they were pissed off because Crockett

  269

  00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:44.230

  wasn't willing to do anything to keep them, really.

  270

  00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:46.910

  And they were being paid less than Jim Cornett.

  271

  00:13:48.110 --> 00:13:50.330

  Fuck that. So they show up in the WWF.

  272

  00:13:50.510 --> 00:13:53.530

  They're managed in real life by Bobby the Brain Heenan.

  273

  00:13:53.770 --> 00:13:58.110

  So it only takes a little bit of effort to assume

  274

  00:13:58.110 --> 00:14:00.890

  that Bobby Heenan would have been managing Ric Flair,

  275

  00:14:00.890 --> 00:14:03.510

  Aaron Anderson and Tully Blanchard,

  276

  00:14:03.770 --> 00:14:07.990

  who are two thirds of the four horsemen. So.

  277

  00:14:08.390 --> 00:14:13.030

  So I have I have I have a way you can get to Flair.

  278

  00:14:14.110 --> 00:14:16.870

  You know, kind of his quest, all right.

  279

  00:14:17.630 --> 00:14:20.810

  My theory is Ric Flair shows up with Bobby Heenan.

  280

  00:14:21.110 --> 00:14:24.910

  He starts calling out Hogan just like he did in 91. Right.

  281

  00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:27.610

  Oh, he's not the champion. Right.

  282

  00:14:29.370 --> 00:14:32.590

  Savage is infuriated that Ric Flair,

  283

  00:14:32.730 --> 00:14:36.330

  the champion from the NWA, is calling out Hogan, not him.

  284

  00:14:36.490 --> 00:14:39.250

  Like, I'm the champ around here, brother.

  285

  00:14:39.390 --> 00:14:42.910

  You know, like he's fucking infuriated and insulted.

  286

  00:14:43.690 --> 00:14:46.850

  And this is exactly what Ric Flair wants. Right.

  287

  00:14:47.250 --> 00:14:48.710

  He's playing mind games.

  288

  00:14:49.310 --> 00:14:50.650

  He's calling out.

  289

  00:14:50.650 --> 00:14:53.190

  He's calling out Hogan. Savage goes,

  290

  00:14:54.110 --> 00:14:56.950

  you know, well, you haven't really earned your way

  291

  00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:59.470

  to a title shot yet, but I'll still fight you.

  292

  00:14:59.550 --> 00:15:00.970

  And Flair goes, no, big man.

  293

  00:15:01.770 --> 00:15:02.750

  No, big man.

  294

  00:15:03.190 --> 00:15:05.110

  I'm not fighting you unless it's for the title.

  295

  00:15:06.250 --> 00:15:09.390

  They make a match for Saturday night's main event.

  296

  00:15:11.550 --> 00:15:13.530

  Tully and Aaron are not in the scene yet.

  297

  00:15:13.810 --> 00:15:16.650

  It's just Flair and Bobby the Brain. OK.

  298

  00:15:18.050 --> 00:15:20.510

  During the match on Saturday night's main event.

  299

  00:15:22.170 --> 00:15:26.250

  Bobby the Brain brings out some people during the match.

  300

  00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:28.130

  There's a ref bump. Something happens.

  301

  00:15:28.690 --> 00:15:29.750

  Right. Right.

  302

  00:15:30.070 --> 00:15:32.170

  Arn and Tully make their presence known.

  303

  00:15:32.610 --> 00:15:35.330

  They destroy the Macho Man.

  304

  00:15:36.970 --> 00:15:38.890

  And Ric Flair wins the world title

  305

  00:15:38.890 --> 00:15:41.030

  on Saturday night's main event.

  306

  00:15:42.970 --> 00:15:46.230

  Then Savage, even more infuriated now.

  307

  00:15:46.950 --> 00:15:50.230

  Right. His pride has been taken away, too. Right.

  308

  00:15:51.010 --> 00:15:53.990

  His team challenges Flair's team at Survivor Series.

  309

  00:15:53.990 --> 00:15:59.870

  Mm hmm. And it's Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard.

  310

  00:16:01.590 --> 00:16:03.890

  But there's only three. Right.

  311

  00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:09.870

  Barry Windham shows up during the match as their mystery partner.

  312

  00:16:10.290 --> 00:16:13.490

  Let's say they eliminate all of Savage's partners.

  313

  00:16:14.370 --> 00:16:18.210

  And the horsemen who don't ever care about winning matches like this,

  314

  00:16:18.230 --> 00:16:19.570

  because what's the stakes for this match?

  315

  00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:20.390

  They don't give a shit.

  316

  00:16:20.990 --> 00:16:24.410

  They just all destroy Randy Savage at the same time. Right.

  317

  00:16:24.410 --> 00:16:27.850

  Like they break his fucking ankle or something with a chair.

  318

  00:16:27.850 --> 00:16:29.210

  They pilmanize them.

  319

  00:16:29.330 --> 00:16:31.510

  They do something absolutely horrible.

  320

  00:16:31.850 --> 00:16:35.730

  OK. And maybe Sherry Martel becomes

  321

  00:16:35.730 --> 00:16:40.490

  the manager of the horsemen with Bobby Heenan. Right.

  322

  00:16:41.150 --> 00:16:43.890

  She takes out Elizabeth. Right.

  323

  00:16:44.090 --> 00:16:47.810

  Hogan takes Elizabeth to the back for emergency treatment,

  324

  00:16:48.510 --> 00:16:52.330

  leaving Savage alone, deserting Savage, even

  325

  00:16:52.330 --> 00:16:55.230

  leaving Savage to be killed by this entire team.

  326

  00:16:56.050 --> 00:16:58.770

  Savage is killed by this entire team. They're disqualified.

  327

  00:16:59.030 --> 00:17:03.030

  I mean, they don't even savage wins the match, but it doesn't even matter.

  328

  00:17:03.030 --> 00:17:05.589

  Right. He's on your universe with the call out blade.

  329

  00:17:05.730 --> 00:17:07.270

  I believe you mean the Widowmaker.

  330

  00:17:07.710 --> 00:17:11.170

  Exactly. Is Barry, is Barry in WWF at that point?

  331

  00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:13.069

  I know not yet.

  332

  00:17:13.069 --> 00:17:15.589

  NWA at that point, 88. He's still in the NWA.

  333

  00:17:15.650 --> 00:17:17.609

  He's the U.S. champion. Right.

  334

  00:17:18.170 --> 00:17:19.390

  But he's about to leave.

  335

  00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:22.010

  I mean, he's he's really, really close to leaving.

  336

  00:17:22.329 --> 00:17:25.310

  Flip flopping back and forth a lot through the 80s and 90s.

  337

  00:17:25.310 --> 00:17:28.390

  So it's not outlandish to think he'd be back. Right.

  338

  00:17:28.610 --> 00:17:32.450

  Well, and certainly, I mean, our argument is essentially

  339

  00:17:32.450 --> 00:17:36.230

  if Ric Flair doesn't isn't part of the deal that Ted Turner

  340

  00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:40.090

  doesn't buy Jim Crockett promotions, you're getting ahead of yourself.

  341

  00:17:41.130 --> 00:17:42.930

  I'm just saying there's a lot of people.

  342

  00:17:43.410 --> 00:17:46.710

  I'm just there's a lot of people available. So.

  343

  00:17:48.550 --> 00:17:51.350

  Flair is the WWF champion. Right.

  344

  00:17:51.350 --> 00:17:53.870

  He holds onto the belt, keeps calling out Hogan.

  345

  00:17:54.250 --> 00:17:56.150

  There's a parade of baby faces.

  346

  00:17:57.870 --> 00:18:00.470

  There's a parade of baby face challengers

  347

  00:18:00.470 --> 00:18:02.590

  that are dealt with as they come.

  348

  00:18:02.830 --> 00:18:05.670

  Well, and also keep in mind, this is the first time

  349

  00:18:06.190 --> 00:18:11.150

  I mean, the four horsemen are a template for for gang warfare.

  350

  00:18:11.730 --> 00:18:13.570

  WWF has never seen that.

  351

  00:18:13.790 --> 00:18:15.990

  You know what I mean? They've never seen people.

  352

  00:18:16.070 --> 00:18:18.370

  They've already run roughshod through one company.

  353

  00:18:18.490 --> 00:18:20.350

  Now they show up in the other company

  354

  00:18:20.350 --> 00:18:22.790

  and they start fucking taking people out left and right.

  355

  00:18:23.030 --> 00:18:24.870

  It's unheard of. It's crazy.

  356

  00:18:25.830 --> 00:18:27.350

  Right. And it goes.

  357

  00:18:28.550 --> 00:18:30.890

  Go ahead. No, I was going to say, I mean,

  358

  00:18:31.770 --> 00:18:34.270

  basically, that's your WrestleMania five main event.

  359

  00:18:34.650 --> 00:18:39.350

  Right. Hogan versus Flair instead of instead of Hogan.

  360

  00:18:39.930 --> 00:18:43.690

  Right. Instead of Hogan and Savage at five. Mm hmm.

  361

  00:18:43.790 --> 00:18:47.030

  It's going to lead to Flair and Hogan at five.

  362

  00:18:47.030 --> 00:18:49.850

  Now, imagine for a minute.

  363

  00:18:51.390 --> 00:18:55.190

  Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan in 1989 instead of nineteen

  364

  00:18:55.190 --> 00:18:58.070

  ninety one or whenever we saw them.

  365

  00:18:58.490 --> 00:19:01.850

  Yeah, really. Ninety four was the only time they ever fought on a pay

  366

  00:19:01.850 --> 00:19:03.750

  per view. Yeah, they never did.

  367

  00:19:03.770 --> 00:19:05.490

  It's all house shows, right? Mm hmm.

  368

  00:19:05.830 --> 00:19:08.730

  So and then you've got furthering the story.

  369

  00:19:08.970 --> 00:19:11.690

  You've got Flair's got sensational Sherry on his side.

  370

  00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:15.970

  So Hogan, of course, still has Liz as his backup

  371

  00:19:15.970 --> 00:19:19.770

  and Savage is, you know, in the hospital for however many weeks

  372

  00:19:19.770 --> 00:19:21.270

  or months or however long it is.

  373

  00:19:24.050 --> 00:19:24.750

  Go on.

  374

  00:19:25.270 --> 00:19:26.790

  Hogan presumably wins it.

  375

  00:19:27.330 --> 00:19:27.850

  We're going to go.

  376

  00:19:27.950 --> 00:19:30.350

  We're going to go with the idea that Hulk Hogan beats Flair

  377

  00:19:30.350 --> 00:19:34.690

  at WrestleMania five, because that is the thing Vince McMahon

  378

  00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:36.950

  would have most likely done. Right.

  379

  00:19:37.370 --> 00:19:40.150

  Hogan always has, you know, Hogan most pose, whatever the.

  380

  00:19:40.530 --> 00:19:41.790

  Yeah. Hogan's going to win it at that point.

  381

  00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:44.530

  Yeah. Hogan overcomes all the horsemen,

  382

  00:19:45.430 --> 00:19:48.850

  overcomes everything, and it's Hogan and Elizabeth

  383

  00:19:48.850 --> 00:19:53.590

  in the ring together posing down, posing down.

  384

  00:19:53.630 --> 00:19:57.110

  Hogan has her up on his shoulder, just like Macho Man players

  385

  00:19:57.110 --> 00:19:58.630

  defeated and humiliated.

  386

  00:19:58.650 --> 00:20:01.270

  Maybe demolition got the tag belts back from the Brain Busters.

  387

  00:20:01.330 --> 00:20:02.430

  I don't know. Maybe.

  388

  00:20:02.750 --> 00:20:03.110

  Who knows?

  389

  00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:06.390

  Hogan does the Macho Man finger thing and turns around in the circle

  390

  00:20:06.390 --> 00:20:12.120

  as a tribute, but he's standing there at the aisle.

  391

  00:20:13.220 --> 00:20:15.600

  Well, he doesn't show up on Raw the next night.

  392

  00:20:15.840 --> 00:20:18.020

  Yeah, there's no raw at the time.

  393

  00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.520

  But Macho is not happy.

  394

  00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:24.460

  OK, but he shows up.

  395

  00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:27.320

  He tells Hogan he does what Macho Man would do.

  396

  00:20:27.320 --> 00:20:30.260

  He would tell him, hey, she's mine.

  397

  00:20:30.820 --> 00:20:33.680

  You know that, you know, she's mine.

  398

  00:20:34.260 --> 00:20:35.880

  You can't, you know.

  399

  00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.080

  You got lost in your eyes, brother.

  400

  00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:39.440

  You've got lust in your eyes.

  401

  00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:43.340

  But he shakes Hogan's hand to pretend like everything's OK.

  402

  00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:47.260

  And just a few weeks later, Savage picks his spot

  403

  00:20:47.260 --> 00:20:50.380

  and turns on Hogan. Mm hmm.

  404

  00:20:50.580 --> 00:20:53.520

  That feud becomes WrestleMania six.

  405

  00:20:54.340 --> 00:20:57.800

  You never have the ultimate warrior in Hogan.

  406

  00:20:58.040 --> 00:21:01.040

  I mean, event and the ultimate warrior.

  407

  00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.420

  Never becomes the world heavyweight champion because

  408

  00:21:06.260 --> 00:21:07.700

  there's no WCW.

  409

  00:21:08.020 --> 00:21:09.120

  You don't need him.

  410

  00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.160

  So you don't need him.

  411

  00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:12.140

  It's worth it's worth noting.

  412

  00:21:12.140 --> 00:21:17.020

  At SummerSlam 88, the the moment that we dropped the pebble

  413

  00:21:17.020 --> 00:21:19.220

  in the pond and that causes the ripples.

  414

  00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:21.640

  That was the night that the ultimate warrior

  415

  00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:25.280

  ended the honky tonk man's was like 14 month reign

  416

  00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:26.800

  as intercontinental champion.

  417

  00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:29.600

  Surprise entrant was supposed to be Brutus Beefcake.

  418

  00:21:29.620 --> 00:21:30.740

  Beefcake wasn't there.

  419

  00:21:30.980 --> 00:21:32.180

  Ultimate Warrior shows up.

  420

  00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.440

  And then the warrior just kind of rode that intercontinental title

  421

  00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:36.740

  until WrestleMania six.

  422

  00:21:36.840 --> 00:21:39.260

  But you don't need him to do that here.

  423

  00:21:39.300 --> 00:21:39.940

  No, we don't.

  424

  00:21:39.940 --> 00:21:42.660

  We don't need a warrior because we have Savage.

  425

  00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.120

  Well, and and I think.

  426

  00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:50.820

  Having Savage to lean on into 90.

  427

  00:21:51.940 --> 00:21:55.180

  You have Flair who can feud with all these other people.

  428

  00:21:55.420 --> 00:21:58.480

  Now he can he can elevate people like Bret Hart.

  429

  00:21:58.580 --> 00:22:00.280

  He can elevate the Shawn Michaels.

  430

  00:22:00.580 --> 00:22:02.060

  He can elevate these other people.

  431

  00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:03.740

  The horsemen can stay a unit.

  432

  00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.360

  You can have maybe down the road, you can have a Bret Hart

  433

  00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:08.620

  join the horsemen.

  434

  00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:12.080

  You know, they turn on Barry Windham so he can have a babyface run

  435

  00:22:12.080 --> 00:22:14.960

  and Bret Hart replaces him or whatever.

  436

  00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:15.720

  Well, yeah.

  437

  00:22:15.780 --> 00:22:20.240

  Or the end if the NWA in a final desperate gas

  438

  00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:22.780

  starts throwing money at Barry Windham saying

  439

  00:22:22.780 --> 00:22:25.180

  we're going to make you the man or you know, you're the guy.

  440

  00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:26.320

  We're finally going to promote you.

  441

  00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:28.060

  And that leaves an empty spot.

  442

  00:22:29.340 --> 00:22:31.660

  Yeah, you don't need to have the brain busters leaving.

  443

  00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:36.020

  So all in all, this Savage ends up being the odd man out.

  444

  00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:39.300

  I mean, isn't he kind of always the odd man out Savage?

  445

  00:22:39.520 --> 00:22:41.020

  That Savage is like gimmick.

  446

  00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:42.520

  He's always the odd man out.

  447

  00:22:43.300 --> 00:22:46.460

  He always played second fiddle to Hogan and he knew it.

  448

  00:22:46.460 --> 00:22:49.660

  And I mean, when he wasn't playing second fiddle to Hogan,

  449

  00:22:49.700 --> 00:22:53.640

  he was trying to play second fiddle to Hogan behind the scenes.

  450

  00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.120

  Like that's really true.

  451

  00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.980

  You know, Randy, I think, would always be built

  452

  00:23:00.980 --> 00:23:03.380

  to be a hulks nemesis no matter how you got there.

  453

  00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:05.640

  I think they would have.

  454

  00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:08.640

  Yeah, well, because if you keep Randy as a good guy,

  455

  00:23:09.080 --> 00:23:10.480

  he he overshadows Hulk.

  456

  00:23:10.600 --> 00:23:12.380

  He's cooler than Hulk Hogan.

  457

  00:23:12.520 --> 00:23:15.580

  He's way going to gravitate every I mean, like I said, I mean,

  458

  00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:18.480

  I know this isn't like the fucking scientific litmus test,

  459

  00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.900

  but like all the kids on the bus liked Randy Savage.

  460

  00:23:22.360 --> 00:23:24.260

  You you were 40 years later.

  461

  00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:26.760

  And do you like Hogan or Savage?

  462

  00:23:27.080 --> 00:23:28.560

  You know, right, right.

  463

  00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:31.960

  I mean, even still to this day, Randy Savage did cartoons.

  464

  00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:36.160

  Randy Savage, everybody just he was in fucking Spider-Man.

  465

  00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.500

  He had a rap album.

  466

  00:23:37.860 --> 00:23:38.960

  Yeah, it was a cultural icon.

  467

  00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.080

  And yes, Hogan was, too, but.

  468

  00:23:42.080 --> 00:23:44.020

  Savage did it while yeah,

  469

  00:23:44.340 --> 00:23:47.280

  Savage did it while having Hogan's thumb on the scale, basically.

  470

  00:23:47.840 --> 00:23:50.020

  You know, Hogan is doing everything in his power

  471

  00:23:50.020 --> 00:23:53.020

  to not let Randy be that guy, and he was.

  472

  00:23:53.020 --> 00:23:55.860

  So, yeah, if Randy's a good guy, no, it's not going to work.

  473

  00:23:55.860 --> 00:23:57.360

  They have to make him a bad guy.

  474

  00:23:58.600 --> 00:24:03.330

  So you have so Antoine says

  475

  00:24:03.330 --> 00:24:07.090

  I think Savage becomes a bigger star with Flair there earlier.

  476

  00:24:07.090 --> 00:24:08.030

  We all hated Hogan.

  477

  00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:10.530

  He just would have had more gloating time.

  478

  00:24:11.890 --> 00:24:14.910

  Probably, but yeah, that's an interesting point.

  479

  00:24:15.690 --> 00:24:16.930

  What if I mean, we're sitting here saying

  480

  00:24:16.930 --> 00:24:18.830

  that there's no need for the ultimate warrior.

  481

  00:24:18.910 --> 00:24:21.950

  Sure. What if Hogan starts getting phased out a little earlier?

  482

  00:24:22.270 --> 00:24:24.550

  Well, and that's that's what I was just about to say.

  483

  00:24:24.970 --> 00:24:29.450

  So we know that by 1990, Vince thinks that Hogan needs to be replaced,

  484

  00:24:29.450 --> 00:24:33.430

  you know, and that he's starting to feel the urge to replace Hulk Hogan.

  485

  00:24:33.730 --> 00:24:36.370

  Right. I don't think he would have replaced him with Macho Man

  486

  00:24:36.370 --> 00:24:38.910

  because he thought Macho Man was old, too. Right.

  487

  00:24:39.650 --> 00:24:44.630

  However, if Ric Flair isn't part of this Turner deal,

  488

  00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:47.250

  let's just say it was all true.

  489

  00:24:47.810 --> 00:24:49.470

  Turner doesn't buy.

  490

  00:24:50.750 --> 00:24:52.630

  Doesn't buy Jim Crockett promotions.

  491

  00:24:52.810 --> 00:24:54.670

  It's just a dead entity now.

  492

  00:24:56.150 --> 00:24:58.870

  I have Smackdown Hotel pulled up right now.

  493

  00:24:59.450 --> 00:25:04.190

  And I'm looking at the 1988 roster of Jim Crockett promotions.

  494

  00:25:05.130 --> 00:25:08.330

  The free agents just on the open market

  495

  00:25:09.140 --> 00:25:12.390

  are Bam Bam Bigelow, Bobby Eaton,

  496

  00:25:12.710 --> 00:25:15.650

  Dennis Condrey, Dick Murdoch, Dr.

  497

  00:25:15.770 --> 00:25:19.550

  Death, Steve Williams, Dusty Rhodes, Eddie Gilbert,

  498

  00:25:20.350 --> 00:25:24.390

  Ivan Koloff, Jim Ross, Jim Cornett,

  499

  00:25:24.390 --> 00:25:28.310

  JJ Dillon, Kendall Windham, Kevin Sullivan,

  500

  00:25:28.910 --> 00:25:34.550

  Larry Zabisco, Lex Luger, Mike Rotunda, Nikita Koloff,

  501

  00:25:36.030 --> 00:25:39.410

  Paul E. Dangerously, Paul Ellering, Rick Steiner,

  502

  00:25:40.350 --> 00:25:44.530

  the Road Warriors, Ron Simmons, very, very green Ron Simmons,

  503

  00:25:44.770 --> 00:25:45.830

  Russian Assassin 2.

  504

  00:25:46.010 --> 00:25:48.290

  I don't know why only two is there.

  505

  00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:51.370

  Stan Lane and Sting.

  506

  00:25:51.750 --> 00:25:53.570

  Soon to be followed by Scott Steiner, too,

  507

  00:25:53.570 --> 00:25:54.430

  because you've already got Rick.

  508

  00:25:54.770 --> 00:25:56.450

  Right. Scott's going to show up.

  509

  00:25:56.930 --> 00:26:01.790

  Right. So in this scenario, Jim Crockett doesn't sell the Turner.

  510

  00:26:03.130 --> 00:26:05.450

  It doesn't mean Crockett goes out of business right away.

  511

  00:26:05.630 --> 00:26:07.750

  It doesn't mean the NWA disappears right away.

  512

  00:26:08.750 --> 00:26:12.310

  But all those dudes are available, potentially.

  513

  00:26:13.670 --> 00:26:15.610

  NWA is going to throw a little money at some of them.

  514

  00:26:15.690 --> 00:26:17.910

  They're going to try to keep some of the dudes that they want.

  515

  00:26:18.570 --> 00:26:20.450

  But somebody is going to go up north.

  516

  00:26:20.450 --> 00:26:24.390

  And I'm thinking Luger and Sting are pretty much shoe ends.

  517

  00:26:24.770 --> 00:26:26.370

  I think Luger and Sting definitely.

  518

  00:26:26.750 --> 00:26:30.510

  So here's why the warrior becomes completely disposable.

  519

  00:26:31.390 --> 00:26:35.850

  Because Vince McMahon would have gotten such a boner for Lex Luger.

  520

  00:26:35.890 --> 00:26:37.430

  Wouldn't even be funny.

  521

  00:26:37.850 --> 00:26:39.770

  OK, Lex Luger at this time.

  522

  00:26:41.070 --> 00:26:45.130

  And Lex Luger very likely would have been the understudy of Hulk Hogan.

  523

  00:26:46.530 --> 00:26:49.730

  While I think Vince would have built up

  524

  00:26:49.730 --> 00:26:52.290

  Lex Luger to be the next Hulk Hogan.

  525

  00:26:52.590 --> 00:26:54.210

  He would have tried with all of his heart.

  526

  00:26:54.490 --> 00:26:56.390

  In 1989, absolutely. Yeah.

  527

  00:26:56.390 --> 00:26:58.290

  Because that's that's young Luger.

  528

  00:26:58.510 --> 00:27:00.710

  It's when it's before he got bored with the business.

  529

  00:27:00.790 --> 00:27:04.270

  It's before he turned into the Luger that we didn't really like so much

  530

  00:27:04.270 --> 00:27:06.770

  in the early 2000s. Yeah, absolutely.

  531

  00:27:06.890 --> 00:27:08.550

  He would. And he's he's blonde.

  532

  00:27:08.750 --> 00:27:11.730

  He's buff. He's fucking got a crazy physique.

  533

  00:27:12.350 --> 00:27:15.690

  And he's got an alliterative name, which we know Vince McMahon

  534

  00:27:16.770 --> 00:27:19.170

  absolutely adores. Yes. Yes.

  535

  00:27:20.210 --> 00:27:22.010

  Yes. So you don't need the warrior.

  536

  00:27:22.070 --> 00:27:23.230

  And the warrior is a jerk.

  537

  00:27:23.290 --> 00:27:24.230

  The warrior is an asshole.

  538

  00:27:24.310 --> 00:27:27.050

  Why would you want to deal with him if you don't have to, you know?

  539

  00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:30.270

  Well, and you and I were talking offline like you booked the warrior

  540

  00:27:30.270 --> 00:27:32.730

  the way he booked attraction babyfaces.

  541

  00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:34.810

  You book him the same way you book Andre the giant.

  542

  00:27:34.870 --> 00:27:36.890

  You just have him wrestle every once in a while

  543

  00:27:37.370 --> 00:27:39.570

  and you have him disappear for long stretches.

  544

  00:27:40.590 --> 00:27:44.170

  He wasn't really good with people, so he can't be a company

  545

  00:27:44.170 --> 00:27:45.390

  representative anywhere.

  546

  00:27:45.610 --> 00:27:48.750

  He's not a good wrestler, so he can't like go

  547

  00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.930

  to other places and represent the company there. Right.

  548

  00:27:52.070 --> 00:27:53.370

  So you just use him. He's fired.

  549

  00:27:53.690 --> 00:27:55.450

  Quite honestly, it might be. Yeah.

  550

  00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:00.070

  But you have Lex Luger and then as a backup in Vince's world,

  551

  00:28:00.230 --> 00:28:03.090

  I think Sting is Luger's backup, not the other way around.

  552

  00:28:03.590 --> 00:28:04.170

  You know what I mean?

  553

  00:28:04.570 --> 00:28:05.770

  In Vince's world, absolutely.

  554

  00:28:06.030 --> 00:28:09.870

  Yeah. Or Sting's part of a tag team or Sting is, you know, who knows

  555

  00:28:09.870 --> 00:28:11.770

  where else he would have been.

  556

  00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:15.330

  You want to let's see what folks are talking about this business.

  557

  00:28:15.330 --> 00:28:17.290

  Yeah, we got some talk going on here.

  558

  00:28:17.290 --> 00:28:20.310

  Larry Rotunda, Koloff, the Steiner's would have been snatched up.

  559

  00:28:20.350 --> 00:28:21.050

  Yeah, absolutely.

  560

  00:28:21.250 --> 00:28:23.550

  Oh, yeah. Can you imagine Vince with Nikita Koloff?

  561

  00:28:23.810 --> 00:28:25.190

  Oh, yeah. Like that.

  562

  00:28:25.310 --> 00:28:25.750

  Definitely.

  563

  00:28:26.150 --> 00:28:29.930

  Having having maybe Hogan in a non title feud with Nikita Koloff.

  564

  00:28:30.230 --> 00:28:30.790

  Right. Yeah.

  565

  00:28:31.730 --> 00:28:33.350

  Yeah, I think Ron Simmons would have been buried,

  566

  00:28:33.350 --> 00:28:35.110

  but that's WWF, too. Right.

  567

  00:28:37.030 --> 00:28:39.130

  What is this? This would be a very fun.

  568

  00:28:41.230 --> 00:28:43.430

  J.O.W.T.E.W. scenario to play out.

  569

  00:28:43.590 --> 00:28:45.430

  I don't I'm not familiar.

  570

  00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:47.510

  Larry, could you elaborate, please?

  571

  00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:49.630

  Yes, yes.

  572

  00:28:49.970 --> 00:28:52.530

  Luger negates the need for the other. Absolutely.

  573

  00:28:52.750 --> 00:28:55.110

  Well, if you have if you have what if you had a version

  574

  00:28:55.110 --> 00:28:59.010

  of the ultimate warrior that wasn't an asshole and could mostly wrestle?

  575

  00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:03.070

  Yeah, I mean, like Luger would be the superior ultimate warrior

  576

  00:29:03.070 --> 00:29:05.330

  if you actually like gave him the gimmick.

  577

  00:29:05.630 --> 00:29:08.450

  But yeah, we already had the gimmick at this time. So,

  578

  00:29:09.430 --> 00:29:12.530

  you know, that's another episode that far. Yeah.

  579

  00:29:14.610 --> 00:29:16.570

  But it's the 80s and Singh would have been white hot

  580

  00:29:16.570 --> 00:29:18.170

  and he absolutely would have been white hot.

  581

  00:29:18.310 --> 00:29:19.410

  He would have been my hot.

  582

  00:29:19.470 --> 00:29:22.110

  And this is why I figure they would have definitely signed him

  583

  00:29:22.110 --> 00:29:25.350

  is because he already would have had the 45 minute draw with Flair

  584

  00:29:25.350 --> 00:29:28.110

  at the Clash of Champions earlier this same year.

  585

  00:29:28.590 --> 00:29:30.210

  Mm hmm. Oh, here we go.

  586

  00:29:30.230 --> 00:29:33.930

  Journey of Wrestling and T.E.W. are both booking sim games.

  587

  00:29:34.050 --> 00:29:36.410

  Oh, cool. That's cool. That is really cool.

  588

  00:29:37.250 --> 00:29:39.790

  Yeah. So, I mean, it's it changes.

  589

  00:29:41.110 --> 00:29:41.550

  Everything.

  590

  00:29:41.890 --> 00:29:46.150

  I don't think because what was the reason for Iron and Tully leaving W.W.F.

  591

  00:29:47.010 --> 00:29:48.070

  Just they were.

  592

  00:29:48.290 --> 00:29:52.730

  You know, because they were not making the money that Vince promised them.

  593

  00:29:53.790 --> 00:29:58.530

  So they had downside guarantees that were very small back in those days.

  594

  00:29:58.630 --> 00:30:00.610

  Vince didn't guarantee you shit. Right.

  595

  00:30:00.730 --> 00:30:03.270

  And he said, but you'll always make more money with me, pal.

  596

  00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:06.290

  And what he told them, they would definitely make better.

  597

  00:30:06.350 --> 00:30:08.150

  They didn't make it even get to that amount.

  598

  00:30:08.150 --> 00:30:10.110

  And so they were like, we're done.

  599

  00:30:10.390 --> 00:30:10.950

  We want out.

  600

  00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:16.030

  And that's when they drop a drug test on Tully Blanchard. Right. Right.

  601

  00:30:16.370 --> 00:30:19.250

  You know, but in this scenario, they had been making bank.

  602

  00:30:19.510 --> 00:30:22.890

  Those guys would have been in part of the biggest storyline in the business.

  603

  00:30:23.450 --> 00:30:25.910

  So, yeah, they absolutely would have stuck around.

  604

  00:30:26.210 --> 00:30:29.750

  Yeah. Tony Khan is a big T.E.W. guy that makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

  605

  00:30:30.270 --> 00:30:32.130

  So here's another question.

  606

  00:30:33.690 --> 00:30:35.670

  Since I think we've kind of gone through

  607

  00:30:35.670 --> 00:30:38.810

  basically our opening scenario of what we think would have happened.

  608

  00:30:39.170 --> 00:30:41.290

  Let's say Barry Windham is not available.

  609

  00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:46.510

  Let's say Jim Crockett either is or isn't in charge of the NWA.

  610

  00:30:46.670 --> 00:30:48.170

  I don't know what happens to the NWA.

  611

  00:30:48.430 --> 00:30:49.830

  But he's not. It wouldn't be.

  612

  00:30:49.930 --> 00:30:51.650

  No, because he was already on his way out.

  613

  00:30:51.730 --> 00:30:53.230

  Yeah. So but whoever isn't.

  614

  00:30:53.230 --> 00:30:55.770

  Oh, and he just blew it. You know. Yeah.

  615

  00:30:57.090 --> 00:31:00.250

  They say, Barry, now this is you're the last guy we've got left.

  616

  00:31:00.570 --> 00:31:01.750

  You're you're Barry Windham.

  617

  00:31:01.850 --> 00:31:02.970

  You're a second generation star.

  618

  00:31:02.970 --> 00:31:06.730

  He gets elevated up to the world title and he stays in the NWA.

  619

  00:31:07.710 --> 00:31:08.990

  Who are the other folks?

  620

  00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:11.230

  Antoine is already answering my question.

  621

  00:31:11.470 --> 00:31:13.930

  Who else could have been in the horsemen?

  622

  00:31:14.210 --> 00:31:15.770

  Who would have been the fourth man?

  623

  00:31:16.030 --> 00:31:17.110

  Kurt Henning would have been.

  624

  00:31:17.390 --> 00:31:18.810

  Was he in the AWA at that point?

  625

  00:31:19.290 --> 00:31:20.950

  No, he was in WWF by this.

  626

  00:31:21.090 --> 00:31:21.510

  He's already there.

  627

  00:31:21.910 --> 00:31:24.190

  We just debuted in the WWF.

  628

  00:31:24.870 --> 00:31:25.430

  OK. Yeah.

  629

  00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:26.750

  So he's like your young buck.

  630

  00:31:26.890 --> 00:31:29.690

  He's your young guy that you're like, you know,

  631

  00:31:30.890 --> 00:31:32.870

  Rick Rood is in the Heenan family at this point.

  632

  00:31:32.870 --> 00:31:34.870

  And I think Rood is a pretty

  633

  00:31:36.690 --> 00:31:38.670

  solid pick to throw him in the horsemen.

  634

  00:31:40.390 --> 00:31:42.450

  Andre, the giant is in the Heenan family

  635

  00:31:43.330 --> 00:31:46.450

  and Andre could be a good muscle man.

  636

  00:31:46.610 --> 00:31:50.970

  Right. Big, huge, four fucking enormous fingers.

  637

  00:31:51.230 --> 00:31:53.710

  Seeing Andre do the floor would have been so dope.

  638

  00:31:54.210 --> 00:31:55.570

  It's the last I mean.

  639

  00:31:56.670 --> 00:32:00.050

  Look, Vince gave Andre the belt just so he'd always have that spot

  640

  00:32:00.050 --> 00:32:01.830

  in the history, you know what I mean?

  641

  00:32:01.830 --> 00:32:02.990

  It's a five second reign.

  642

  00:32:03.190 --> 00:32:05.050

  Whatever. Vince loved Andre.

  643

  00:32:07.330 --> 00:32:09.490

  Andre was in a tag team with Haku, right?

  644

  00:32:09.510 --> 00:32:11.070

  So that Haku could all do all the work

  645

  00:32:11.070 --> 00:32:12.470

  and Andre would just stand there.

  646

  00:32:13.230 --> 00:32:16.070

  Well, imagine there's three other guys to do all the work for him.

  647

  00:32:16.070 --> 00:32:17.530

  Right. And he's just the muscle.

  648

  00:32:17.610 --> 00:32:18.710

  Andre is a perfect fit.

  649

  00:32:20.130 --> 00:32:22.410

  I think it's worth mentioning that because it's Vince McMahon,

  650

  00:32:22.610 --> 00:32:25.370

  because it's 1988 leading into 1989,

  651

  00:32:26.470 --> 00:32:28.210

  you know, Zeus could have been an option.

  652

  00:32:29.350 --> 00:32:31.030

  Zeus absolutely could have been an option

  653

  00:32:31.030 --> 00:32:33.570

  as much as we all fucking hate to admit it.

  654

  00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:36.730

  That's a pretty real possibility.

  655

  00:32:37.870 --> 00:32:41.170

  Really in private pushing the theory that Zeus could have been the fourth.

  656

  00:32:41.510 --> 00:32:44.770

  I was absolutely pushing the theory that Zeus could have been the fourth.

  657

  00:32:45.890 --> 00:32:48.370

  Zeus headlined SummerSlam the following year.

  658

  00:32:48.710 --> 00:32:51.570

  Did he not? Hey, one has a response to this.

  659

  00:32:52.370 --> 00:32:54.470

  No, no.

  660

  00:32:54.810 --> 00:32:56.590

  I'm not saying I want it.

  661

  00:32:56.830 --> 00:32:58.230

  No, no.

  662

  00:32:59.510 --> 00:33:01.130

  I'm not saying I want it.

  663

  00:33:01.130 --> 00:33:03.090

  I'm just saying, let's be realistic here.

  664

  00:33:03.250 --> 00:33:05.450

  This man put Dusty Rhodes in polka dots.

  665

  00:33:05.610 --> 00:33:07.410

  He might have put Zeus in the horsemen.

  666

  00:33:07.630 --> 00:33:08.610

  It's not impossible.

  667

  00:33:08.690 --> 00:33:11.670

  And maybe where after he drops the belt to Hogan,

  668

  00:33:12.790 --> 00:33:17.470

  him and Zeus tag team against Savage and Hogan at SummerSlam or something,

  669

  00:33:17.510 --> 00:33:19.710

  you know, like who's to say or Luger?

  670

  00:33:19.710 --> 00:33:23.910

  You need the thing is because this is a timeline I will not accept.

  671

  00:33:24.150 --> 00:33:24.770

  We're going to sit here

  672

  00:33:24.770 --> 00:33:26.570

  and we're going to say that the NWA goes out of business.

  673

  00:33:26.570 --> 00:33:29.770

  We're going to say that Rick Flair wins the WWF title in 1988,

  674

  00:33:29.770 --> 00:33:33.250

  but I am not going to live in a world in which Tiny Lister

  675

  00:33:33.250 --> 00:33:35.930

  doesn't eventually play Debo in Friday.

  676

  00:33:36.470 --> 00:33:38.650

  And this is his first big claim to fame.

  677

  00:33:38.850 --> 00:33:42.370

  You need SummerSlam fucking shit on Zeus all you want.

  678

  00:33:42.650 --> 00:33:44.130

  But it ends up with Friday.

  679

  00:33:44.490 --> 00:33:46.110

  I'm willing to fucking love Debo, dude.

  680

  00:33:46.210 --> 00:33:47.670

  I'm fucking love Tiny Lister.

  681

  00:33:47.770 --> 00:33:48.910

  I'm a big fan.

  682

  00:33:49.250 --> 00:33:51.550

  I have the Hogan versus Zeus.

  683

  00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:56.230

  San Diego Comic Con only exactly like I love that shit.

  684

  00:33:56.230 --> 00:33:59.050

  So Zeus might have been horrible,

  685

  00:33:59.050 --> 00:34:02.530

  but the eventual thing we got down the road was Friday.

  686

  00:34:02.670 --> 00:34:06.030

  And I'm willing to I'm willing to deal with it.

  687

  00:34:07.010 --> 00:34:08.949

  Well, you already got a summer of it anyway, right?

  688

  00:34:09.030 --> 00:34:10.030

  You got a summer of it.

  689

  00:34:11.070 --> 00:34:12.870

  I don't see Hercules Antoine.

  690

  00:34:12.909 --> 00:34:13.610

  I just don't.

  691

  00:34:13.830 --> 00:34:15.070

  I know he wasn't.

  692

  00:34:15.290 --> 00:34:17.510

  He was a guy like, you know how I said,

  693

  00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:21.170

  you could book the warrior as like more of like an attraction.

  694

  00:34:21.230 --> 00:34:24.750

  You have him come back and beat guys like Hercules.

  695

  00:34:24.750 --> 00:34:26.210

  You know, right.

  696

  00:34:26.710 --> 00:34:28.290

  Hercules is like a gatekeeper guy, right?

  697

  00:34:28.730 --> 00:34:31.949

  Hercules, if maybe he would have realized that you can go to the tanner

  698

  00:34:31.949 --> 00:34:34.610

  and tan your legs as well as the top half of your body.

  699

  00:34:34.650 --> 00:34:37.449

  Maybe Hercules could have been a bigger time, but

  700

  00:34:37.449 --> 00:34:44.230

  only the top skewer universe hates the idea of Zeus.

  701

  00:34:44.469 --> 00:34:45.989

  But he says we're overlooking the obvious.

  702

  00:34:46.050 --> 00:34:48.090

  And I wonder what the obvious is.

  703

  00:34:48.330 --> 00:34:50.250

  Oh, well, I mean, come on, that's a given.

  704

  00:34:50.429 --> 00:34:50.949

  Yeah, of course.

  705

  00:34:51.190 --> 00:34:52.630

  Horowitz is the fourth horseman.

  706

  00:34:52.630 --> 00:34:53.909

  Thanks, Barry Horowitz.

  707

  00:34:53.909 --> 00:34:55.469

  Might have made a great horseman.

  708

  00:34:56.050 --> 00:34:58.630

  He's about the same caliber as Paul Roma.

  709

  00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.310

  So, yeah, you never know.

  710

  00:35:01.610 --> 00:35:06.230

  So, OK, if nobody else in the chat has any other horse suggestions.

  711

  00:35:06.310 --> 00:35:07.430

  Here's another question.

  712

  00:35:07.730 --> 00:35:09.230

  I want to get back into this a minute.

  713

  00:35:09.870 --> 00:35:11.290

  What does Ted DiBiase do?

  714

  00:35:11.990 --> 00:35:13.710

  Well, and we talked about that at the top.

  715

  00:35:13.790 --> 00:35:15.310

  I don't think he leaves.

  716

  00:35:16.050 --> 00:35:18.930

  I think Ted DiBiase gives his notice because the million dollar

  717

  00:35:18.930 --> 00:35:20.470

  man gimmick is done.

  718

  00:35:20.630 --> 00:35:21.850

  It's Kaput. Yeah, there.

  719

  00:35:21.850 --> 00:35:23.230

  You don't need it.

  720

  00:35:23.530 --> 00:35:25.390

  It's basically the same gimmick.

  721

  00:35:25.730 --> 00:35:27.050

  It's just, you know.

  722

  00:35:27.310 --> 00:35:31.030

  So I think Ted DiBiase is a guy that the remaining

  723

  00:35:31.030 --> 00:35:32.910

  NWA partners. Sure.

  724

  00:35:33.070 --> 00:35:35.330

  You're saying the NWA goes away.

  725

  00:35:35.850 --> 00:35:37.590

  No, Jim Crockett goes. Right.

  726

  00:35:37.830 --> 00:35:38.570

  Right. Different deal.

  727

  00:35:39.050 --> 00:35:40.250

  So I think.

  728

  00:35:41.550 --> 00:35:44.150

  I think you're very correct that somebody would have thrown

  729

  00:35:44.150 --> 00:35:46.290

  a bucket load of money at Barry Windham.

  730

  00:35:46.790 --> 00:35:49.270

  And I think Ted's another guy they would throw up.

  731

  00:35:49.350 --> 00:35:50.010

  Oh, for sure.

  732

  00:35:50.010 --> 00:35:53.110

  Because Ted had carried a promotion on his back before,

  733

  00:35:54.010 --> 00:35:55.370

  you know, you need guys like that.

  734

  00:35:55.510 --> 00:36:00.490

  Maybe Barry, who has carried Florida before very and

  735

  00:36:00.490 --> 00:36:05.410

  Ted are your baby face and heel at the top of world

  736

  00:36:05.410 --> 00:36:08.950

  class at the top of where you also still have the von

  737

  00:36:08.950 --> 00:36:10.190

  Erichs. Right.

  738

  00:36:10.670 --> 00:36:13.870

  However, 88 is the year Fritz sells world class.

  739

  00:36:14.130 --> 00:36:16.950

  So maybe that doesn't happen with all of this going on.

  740

  00:36:18.490 --> 00:36:21.230

  Vergonia is still running the AWA, but this is the.

  741

  00:36:22.370 --> 00:36:23.310

  Yeah, the death.

  742

  00:36:23.810 --> 00:36:26.090

  Where is the AWA in 1988?

  743

  00:36:27.010 --> 00:36:28.790

  Well, that's the year the key on a pole match.

  744

  00:36:28.790 --> 00:36:33.110

  All are unified, the Memphis and and AWA title.

  745

  00:36:33.230 --> 00:36:37.270

  And then they never paid Jerry Lawler and they stripped him of the belt

  746

  00:36:37.270 --> 00:36:39.890

  because he wouldn't defend it because he never got paid to defend it.

  747

  00:36:42.570 --> 00:36:44.790

  Yeah. So that's that's another question.

  748

  00:36:44.790 --> 00:36:49.110

  And you also have all these people in Crockett who are free agents.

  749

  00:36:49.330 --> 00:36:50.470

  You know, I think Dr.

  750

  00:36:50.630 --> 00:36:54.490

  Death, you're going to see him go to Japan, Bam Bam Bigelow.

  751

  00:36:54.810 --> 00:36:56.850

  I imagine he ends up in Japan.

  752

  00:36:58.390 --> 00:37:01.030

  You know, he's he been in Japan at this point already or no,

  753

  00:37:01.170 --> 00:37:02.950

  I don't think so. I don't think so.

  754

  00:37:02.950 --> 00:37:05.110

  He just either goes a little earlier or what?

  755

  00:37:05.310 --> 00:37:06.730

  It goes a little earlier. Yep.

  756

  00:37:07.090 --> 00:37:10.990

  But you also have, you know, you have the Midnights are free agents.

  757

  00:37:10.990 --> 00:37:13.590

  And I think that that's a very promising thing.

  758

  00:37:14.190 --> 00:37:16.650

  The Rock and Roll Express were gone at this time as well.

  759

  00:37:16.690 --> 00:37:20.310

  So, you know, they might have hooked up and done that same feud

  760

  00:37:20.310 --> 00:37:23.870

  in Memphis or in Texas or wherever.

  761

  00:37:26.710 --> 00:37:29.310

  Agree with you, Blair Lyon. Bam Bam was fucking awesome.

  762

  00:37:29.870 --> 00:37:33.110

  I honestly, I'm so glad he got to be ECW champion

  763

  00:37:33.110 --> 00:37:35.850

  because him not being a world champion would have been a crime.

  764

  00:37:36.870 --> 00:37:37.570

  Yeah. Yeah.

  765

  00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:40.150

  Bigelow was amazing in his day.

  766

  00:37:41.350 --> 00:37:43.290

  I rave about the dude's name,

  767

  00:37:43.290 --> 00:37:45.230

  but everything about that guy was perfect, too.

  768

  00:37:45.290 --> 00:37:48.130

  And then ruled the tattoos on his head.

  769

  00:37:48.270 --> 00:37:50.390

  People didn't have tattoos back then.

  770

  00:37:50.410 --> 00:37:53.090

  Like you might have one on your arm.

  771

  00:37:53.270 --> 00:37:56.030

  Yeah. Jesus. And he could do a little cartwheel and shit.

  772

  00:37:56.150 --> 00:37:57.290

  I mean, that was great.

  773

  00:37:58.910 --> 00:37:59.990

  What do we have here?

  774

  00:38:00.130 --> 00:38:01.490

  Antoine says he goes earlier.

  775

  00:38:01.630 --> 00:38:03.190

  Midnights go to Japan redundancy.

  776

  00:38:03.390 --> 00:38:05.870

  I think of doom in Japan full time.

  777

  00:38:06.210 --> 00:38:07.750

  Jesus Christ. Yeah.

  778

  00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:09.550

  If doom's ever formed, right?

  779

  00:38:10.110 --> 00:38:11.650

  Yeah. Maybe there is no doom.

  780

  00:38:11.650 --> 00:38:14.870

  I mean, there's no WCW.

  781

  00:38:15.250 --> 00:38:16.650

  There's no WCW.

  782

  00:38:16.670 --> 00:38:17.710

  There's no WC.

  783

  00:38:18.110 --> 00:38:19.530

  Those are trading cards.

  784

  00:38:19.670 --> 00:38:20.830

  There's none of it.

  785

  00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:26.270

  If we take what Antoine said that Nikita goes to WWF

  786

  00:38:26.270 --> 00:38:29.970

  and Rotunda goes to WWF and

  787

  00:38:31.010 --> 00:38:34.510

  I can't remember who else he's there was one other person he mentioned.

  788

  00:38:35.170 --> 00:38:38.130

  But we take on Eric, I think off the table.

  789

  00:38:38.130 --> 00:38:43.110

  I think eventually Vince makes a play for Kerry von Eric earlier than he did.

  790

  00:38:43.470 --> 00:38:45.350

  Maybe the whole von Eric family goes.

  791

  00:38:45.750 --> 00:38:49.350

  Maybe Vince buys Fritz out instead of that whole

  792

  00:38:50.310 --> 00:38:52.670

  disaster between Jerry Jarrett and all of them.

  793

  00:38:53.230 --> 00:38:54.970

  But then you've still got Memphis.

  794

  00:38:55.170 --> 00:38:57.330

  But here's the other thing that you've got.

  795

  00:38:57.870 --> 00:39:01.230

  And this really got our brains turning because I'm a genius.

  796

  00:39:02.110 --> 00:39:04.490

  So you've got dusty roads.

  797

  00:39:05.850 --> 00:39:08.810

  You've got I said, I'm a genius.

  798

  00:39:08.910 --> 00:39:10.090

  You gave a weird look. What's that about?

  799

  00:39:10.230 --> 00:39:12.630

  Oh, I just something something smelled strange.

  800

  00:39:12.870 --> 00:39:13.330

  Is it interesting?

  801

  00:39:13.490 --> 00:39:15.070

  Something's totally, totally unrelated.

  802

  00:39:15.110 --> 00:39:18.110

  My dogs sometimes I fart and like it smells really bad.

  803

  00:39:18.110 --> 00:39:19.290

  And I'm like, oh, who back?

  804

  00:39:19.410 --> 00:39:19.970

  Yeah, no, no.

  805

  00:39:20.050 --> 00:39:23.070

  I mean, it certainly didn't have anything to do with you calling yourself a genius.

  806

  00:39:23.190 --> 00:39:24.990

  Go on. Tell us about Dusty Rose.

  807

  00:39:25.010 --> 00:39:25.630

  I'm a genius.

  808

  00:39:26.790 --> 00:39:31.070

  So you're looking at Kevin Sullivan, Dusty Rhodes,

  809

  00:39:31.070 --> 00:39:37.370

  Paul Dangerously, Jim Ross, Jim Cornett, all right.

  810

  00:39:38.690 --> 00:39:39.570

  Being free agents.

  811

  00:39:39.870 --> 00:39:42.850

  Yeah, they're not all going to go to WWF.

  812

  00:39:42.910 --> 00:39:47.010

  No, you're telling me they're not going to go start something then.

  813

  00:39:47.770 --> 00:39:49.790

  They're not going to get investment money.

  814

  00:39:50.090 --> 00:39:54.050

  Polly Dangerously is not going to fucking talk some schmuck into fucking

  815

  00:39:54.050 --> 00:39:55.350

  paying his bill.

  816

  00:39:55.590 --> 00:39:57.870

  Well, Ted Turner is still out there.

  817

  00:39:57.870 --> 00:40:01.630

  So how do you know Polly Dangerously isn't talking to Ted Turner?

  818

  00:40:01.630 --> 00:40:04.730

  And he doesn't just say, OK, look, so the Crockett thing didn't work out.

  819

  00:40:04.850 --> 00:40:08.450

  But what if we give you your own wrestling promotion? Right.

  820

  00:40:09.890 --> 00:40:14.730

  So, again, I mean, the Turner thing could still be in play something like

  821

  00:40:15.650 --> 00:40:19.450

  you either get something like an ECW years ahead of time.

  822

  00:40:19.450 --> 00:40:20.110

  Sure. Right.

  823

  00:40:21.130 --> 00:40:23.730

  Or you get another big national promotion.

  824

  00:40:24.810 --> 00:40:27.950

  Right. I don't think you would have had something as hardcore

  825

  00:40:27.950 --> 00:40:31.210

  as ECW in 1988. Probably not.

  826

  00:40:31.470 --> 00:40:35.050

  Again, I was 12 years old, so I can't really make that comment for sure.

  827

  00:40:35.510 --> 00:40:38.530

  But the voice of the revolution kind of. Yeah, you know, yeah.

  828

  00:40:38.570 --> 00:40:41.430

  It's young talent they can afford. And you've got.

  829

  00:40:42.490 --> 00:40:45.390

  You know, we mentioned it earlier, and I'm positive

  830

  00:40:45.390 --> 00:40:49.610

  you already gave the man a eulogy on Sit Down, Shut Up, Mark Out.

  831

  00:40:49.830 --> 00:40:51.370

  But this is the thing.

  832

  00:40:51.370 --> 00:40:54.470

  This is where we were talking at the top of the show about Ted

  833

  00:40:54.470 --> 00:40:56.610

  Turner being such an important part of professional wrestling.

  834

  00:40:57.050 --> 00:41:01.810

  If Ted Turner doesn't buy WCW and there and there's no competition for Vince,

  835

  00:41:02.470 --> 00:41:04.950

  wrestling is a totally different animal.

  836

  00:41:05.730 --> 00:41:07.310

  And we'll get into that at the end of the episode.

  837

  00:41:08.110 --> 00:41:11.710

  But so let's say I mean, we know that Turner is a guy that loves wrestling.

  838

  00:41:11.770 --> 00:41:14.150

  Turner always wants wrestling on his channels.

  839

  00:41:14.310 --> 00:41:16.710

  He's always said wrestling always makes money.

  840

  00:41:16.770 --> 00:41:19.650

  Yep. And he's always been loyal to professional wrestling.

  841

  00:41:20.310 --> 00:41:23.530

  So maybe somebody like Dangerously or Heyman,

  842

  00:41:24.290 --> 00:41:27.310

  maybe Heyman and Jim Ross do team up and they get in his ear.

  843

  00:41:27.310 --> 00:41:31.210

  Maybe he starts whatever the big a new third promotion,

  844

  00:41:31.250 --> 00:41:33.170

  which becomes the second promotion, whatever.

  845

  00:41:35.870 --> 00:41:37.310

  Piers Piers wrestling.

  846

  00:41:37.310 --> 00:41:38.930

  I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing that right.

  847

  00:41:39.130 --> 00:41:41.630

  Says, hey, guys, welcome to the show.

  848

  00:41:41.630 --> 00:41:43.630

  What up? So, yeah.

  849

  00:41:44.510 --> 00:41:47.870

  And you also got Kevin Sullivan, who's been unleashed

  850

  00:41:47.870 --> 00:41:52.330

  and who could end up anywhere, you know, either starting a promotion,

  851

  00:41:52.950 --> 00:41:55.790

  you know, him and Dusty might try to get Florida going again.

  852

  00:41:57.530 --> 00:42:01.510

  But the old school territories probably live a little longer

  853

  00:42:01.510 --> 00:42:03.430

  without WCW happening.

  854

  00:42:03.650 --> 00:42:06.650

  It's just national wrestling only has one company. Right.

  855

  00:42:07.590 --> 00:42:09.910

  So then the other question, and I don't know if I if we're getting

  856

  00:42:09.910 --> 00:42:11.970

  too far ahead of ourselves here, but like.

  857

  00:42:13.110 --> 00:42:15.410

  When does wrestling start?

  858

  00:42:17.270 --> 00:42:18.230

  Dying out.

  859

  00:42:18.770 --> 00:42:22.330

  Well, the warrior time period, 89, I was just about to say,

  860

  00:42:22.350 --> 00:42:25.790

  this is why I put Savage and Hogan at WrestleMania six

  861

  00:42:25.790 --> 00:42:28.950

  is because we talked about this on the hard way back in the day

  862

  00:42:29.790 --> 00:42:32.510

  was the more we talked about it, the more I believed

  863

  00:42:32.510 --> 00:42:35.190

  the beginning of the end of the golden era

  864

  00:42:35.190 --> 00:42:37.150

  was when the ultimate warrior beat Hogan.

  865

  00:42:37.490 --> 00:42:39.890

  Absolutely. Because he wasn't up to it.

  866

  00:42:40.210 --> 00:42:41.570

  He wasn't up to it.

  867

  00:42:41.710 --> 00:42:45.290

  And he and the babyface versus babyface dynamic

  868

  00:42:45.830 --> 00:42:48.110

  never draws the way people think it will.

  869

  00:42:48.310 --> 00:42:50.430

  It just never does. And

  870

  00:42:52.070 --> 00:42:55.170

  and but they were out of top heels and they screwed up, Mr.

  871

  00:42:55.250 --> 00:42:57.650

  Perfect. They screwed up a bunch of guys.

  872

  00:42:57.910 --> 00:43:00.010

  They screwed up Ted DiBiase quite on it.

  873

  00:43:00.550 --> 00:43:03.130

  And so they didn't have anybody credible for the warrior.

  874

  00:43:03.230 --> 00:43:06.510

  He was given these kind of lackluster opponents during his run.

  875

  00:43:06.670 --> 00:43:08.550

  And he couldn't wrestle where the hell is shit.

  876

  00:43:08.970 --> 00:43:10.810

  He's not as a wrestler.

  877

  00:43:10.890 --> 00:43:14.730

  And so he can't match his opponent's styles.

  878

  00:43:14.730 --> 00:43:16.630

  He can't mix it up.

  879

  00:43:16.790 --> 00:43:20.670

  Well, in his crazy, his crazy wild promos and everything

  880

  00:43:20.670 --> 00:43:24.390

  that drew you to the warrior are really great in small doses.

  881

  00:43:24.390 --> 00:43:29.050

  But once you start overexposing that guy, it just gets old, you know.

  882

  00:43:30.070 --> 00:43:32.610

  So do you think this is the question, then?

  883

  00:43:32.610 --> 00:43:36.410

  Do you think that the fad dies out

  884

  00:43:36.410 --> 00:43:38.690

  at that time the same as it did normally?

  885

  00:43:38.690 --> 00:43:41.130

  Or do you think that Hogan and Savage carries it

  886

  00:43:41.130 --> 00:43:43.030

  and it lasts a little bit longer?

  887

  00:43:43.030 --> 00:43:46.530

  Because now you have Hogan, Savage, Flair, and then all these people

  888

  00:43:46.530 --> 00:43:49.950

  coming in, the fad maybe doesn't die out so quick.

  889

  00:43:50.350 --> 00:43:52.010

  I think it doesn't die out so quick.

  890

  00:43:52.210 --> 00:43:56.150

  But that's solely to the benefit, really, of WWF and nobody else.

  891

  00:43:56.250 --> 00:43:57.950

  And I think that

  892

  00:43:57.950 --> 00:44:00.710

  you get that entrenched, oligarchic

  893

  00:44:01.830 --> 00:44:04.970

  corporate fascism thing a little earlier.

  894

  00:44:05.710 --> 00:44:09.550

  Well, and then, yeah, there's I mean, to be.

  895

  00:44:10.470 --> 00:44:12.210

  I don't know, hyperbolic, I guess.

  896

  00:44:12.210 --> 00:44:13.610

  Pro wrestling dies.

  897

  00:44:14.010 --> 00:44:16.890

  And sports entertainment is the only thing.

  898

  00:44:16.930 --> 00:44:21.630

  But instead of that happening in the early 2000s, it happens in 1988.

  899

  00:44:22.790 --> 00:44:25.150

  Right. Yeah. Instead of 2001.

  900

  00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:27.110

  Right. That's your universe.

  901

  00:44:27.210 --> 00:44:28.230

  There'd be no attitude era.

  902

  00:44:28.270 --> 00:44:30.270

  No Austin, three, 16, King, the great one.

  903

  00:44:30.350 --> 00:44:31.570

  Nope. Right. Nope.

  904

  00:44:31.910 --> 00:44:35.730

  There were just wrestling itself becomes considered more of like,

  905

  00:44:35.850 --> 00:44:37.690

  remember when the hula hoop was a big deal?

  906

  00:44:37.810 --> 00:44:41.570

  You know, like that's what wrestling it goes the way of.

  907

  00:44:42.250 --> 00:44:43.670

  Roller derby, basically.

  908

  00:44:43.690 --> 00:44:44.850

  Yeah, it's still around.

  909

  00:44:45.270 --> 00:44:48.610

  You know, it's the 80s, though he has a cartoon.

  910

  00:44:48.610 --> 00:44:49.650

  He has a toy line.

  911

  00:44:50.010 --> 00:44:52.950

  There's a chance it's, you know, G.I.

  912

  00:44:52.990 --> 00:44:54.350

  Joe Ninja Turtles, He-Man.

  913

  00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:56.850

  Maybe it gets revived as a nostalgic thing.

  914

  00:44:57.410 --> 00:44:59.390

  But yeah, I don't.

  915

  00:44:59.530 --> 00:45:02.210

  You never listen to the Sergeant Slaughter storyline,

  916

  00:45:02.330 --> 00:45:05.410

  which got so much damage that did to the brand.

  917

  00:45:05.730 --> 00:45:07.790

  And he also has.

  918

  00:45:09.350 --> 00:45:12.070

  You still have the steroid scandal coming, you know,

  919

  00:45:12.070 --> 00:45:14.530

  and that doesn't change because of this.

  920

  00:45:14.530 --> 00:45:17.690

  Right. You know, maybe he puts the belt on guys like Bret and Perfect

  921

  00:45:17.690 --> 00:45:19.970

  and and and Rick Flair sooner.

  922

  00:45:20.870 --> 00:45:25.490

  But maybe the outcome of this, the trial changes.

  923

  00:45:26.290 --> 00:45:28.790

  But you also have.

  924

  00:45:29.130 --> 00:45:31.910

  Vince going eventually whole hog with

  925

  00:45:32.910 --> 00:45:37.390

  garbage men and sports stars, hockey guys,

  926

  00:45:37.570 --> 00:45:39.770

  you know, roosters, et cetera, et cetera,

  927

  00:45:39.770 --> 00:45:42.670

  with nothing else as a buffer to that.

  928

  00:45:42.730 --> 00:45:47.390

  You don't have the real wrestling or whatever you want to call it

  929

  00:45:47.390 --> 00:45:50.630

  of the NWA or the AWA, Verne Gagne's vision.

  930

  00:45:51.010 --> 00:45:55.390

  You only have this one vision of professional wrestling, and it's

  931

  00:45:56.510 --> 00:46:00.070

  not the one that I would really want, I guess.

  932

  00:46:00.290 --> 00:46:01.730

  And it happens in 88.

  933

  00:46:02.970 --> 00:46:05.290

  Right. So there's that.

  934

  00:46:06.590 --> 00:46:09.210

  Antoine says, I think one thing happens,

  935

  00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:12.110

  you mentioned ECW still happens, but it becomes the number two.

  936

  00:46:12.310 --> 00:46:13.930

  So who on earth comes there?

  937

  00:46:14.530 --> 00:46:16.870

  Well, I mean, is it the same style?

  938

  00:46:16.870 --> 00:46:20.530

  I think is the question, because ECW

  939

  00:46:20.530 --> 00:46:22.450

  was descended from Tri State Wrestling,

  940

  00:46:22.910 --> 00:46:25.030

  which was run by a dude named Joel Goodhart.

  941

  00:46:25.710 --> 00:46:29.330

  But the problem with ECW with Tri State is that he booked

  942

  00:46:29.330 --> 00:46:32.150

  every match is a hardcore match, every match on the card.

  943

  00:46:32.610 --> 00:46:36.070

  Like he had no idea how to like build anything.

  944

  00:46:36.110 --> 00:46:38.870

  So he'd sign all these super expensive people to come.

  945

  00:46:38.870 --> 00:46:40.530

  The shows would draw really well.

  946

  00:46:40.630 --> 00:46:41.730

  He'd have the Sheik there.

  947

  00:46:41.910 --> 00:46:43.070

  You'd have Abdullah there.

  948

  00:46:43.170 --> 00:46:44.490

  You'd have Terry Funk there.

  949

  00:46:44.690 --> 00:46:45.950

  You'd have Eddie Gilbert there.

  950

  00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:47.310

  They draw really well.

  951

  00:46:47.310 --> 00:46:50.210

  But because the talent was so expensive, they wouldn't make any money.

  952

  00:46:50.770 --> 00:46:55.930

  And so Todd Gordon basically took the audience that came to see Tri State

  953

  00:46:56.510 --> 00:47:00.510

  and the people from that promotion who were doing all the back end stuff said,

  954

  00:47:00.650 --> 00:47:03.850

  Todd, would you be willing to like fund the bare bones

  955

  00:47:03.850 --> 00:47:05.970

  of something just so we can do this?

  956

  00:47:05.970 --> 00:47:07.350

  We don't care if we make any money.

  957

  00:47:08.150 --> 00:47:11.910

  And Todd just basically decided, hey, I'm not going to bring in all the big names.

  958

  00:47:12.350 --> 00:47:15.230

  I'm going to bring in maybe one or two, you know, per show.

  959

  00:47:15.410 --> 00:47:16.810

  Right. We get sustainable.

  960

  00:47:16.810 --> 00:47:20.010

  And that's how ECW starts. So.

  961

  00:47:20.910 --> 00:47:26.330

  Maybe ECW still happens, but does it happen in 1989,

  962

  00:47:26.330 --> 00:47:31.010

  maybe because Tri State starts in 1990, it's not like that far removed.

  963

  00:47:31.030 --> 00:47:32.050

  No, not really.

  964

  00:47:32.890 --> 00:47:36.370

  That Philly, that South Philly hardcore mentality is already there.

  965

  00:47:36.370 --> 00:47:39.030

  You know, so who's to say?

  966

  00:47:39.250 --> 00:47:40.390

  But and who goes there?

  967

  00:47:40.410 --> 00:47:44.230

  I'm pretty sure Hayman, Eddie Gilbert, you know,

  968

  00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:46.050

  guys who went there.

  969

  00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:49.530

  And then there's also the other thing that we haven't considered is

  970

  00:47:49.530 --> 00:47:52.070

  who else in WWF is just worth nothing.

  971

  00:47:52.770 --> 00:47:54.790

  And leaves happens. Yeah.

  972

  00:47:54.830 --> 00:47:56.990

  I mean, do you need Dino Bravo?

  973

  00:47:58.010 --> 00:47:59.850

  Do you need Brutus Beefcake?

  974

  00:47:59.990 --> 00:48:02.390

  He probably has a job. Well, yeah, he's got a job because of Hogan.

  975

  00:48:02.770 --> 00:48:05.490

  But a lot of those guys are gone and they're out

  976

  00:48:05.490 --> 00:48:08.370

  kind of seeding the territories again. Yep.

  977

  00:48:08.830 --> 00:48:12.870

  Yeah, you got guys like Ken Patera, who is like signs,

  978

  00:48:13.030 --> 00:48:15.350

  autographs and wrestles on your show. Right.

  979

  00:48:15.870 --> 00:48:17.870

  At what point does Herb Abrams start the UW?

  980

  00:48:18.030 --> 00:48:20.730

  Oh, no, he's already done with the UWF at this point, isn't he?

  981

  00:48:20.830 --> 00:48:22.330

  So he's no.

  982

  00:48:22.530 --> 00:48:26.930

  So Herb Abrams doesn't start his UWF until the mid 90s, like 93.

  983

  00:48:27.470 --> 00:48:31.050

  So, OK, so there's your there's your big money

  984

  00:48:31.050 --> 00:48:32.470

  mark or whatever you want to call him.

  985

  00:48:32.550 --> 00:48:34.950

  You know, there's your guy who's got the cash.

  986

  00:48:34.950 --> 00:48:36.910

  The only thing bigger than a money

  987

  00:48:36.910 --> 00:48:39.950

  mark that he was a mark for was cocaine, Cacanya.

  988

  00:48:41.350 --> 00:48:42.670

  But I mean, like, yeah.

  989

  00:48:42.670 --> 00:48:44.870

  So let's say a dude like that gets a hold of,

  990

  00:48:45.390 --> 00:48:48.110

  you know, Eddie Gilbert and shit like that or Heyman or whoever.

  991

  00:48:49.170 --> 00:48:51.010

  Yeah, there's there's different possibilities.

  992

  00:48:51.050 --> 00:48:53.530

  And we haven't even mentioned Jerry Jarrett either.

  993

  00:48:53.910 --> 00:48:55.790

  I don't know what Jerry Jarrett's doing in 1988.

  994

  00:48:56.590 --> 00:48:58.690

  I mean, the USWA.

  995

  00:48:59.870 --> 00:49:01.850

  Last until like 1998,

  996

  00:49:02.490 --> 00:49:08.810

  like it was the last territory to go, you know, go on.

  997

  00:49:08.850 --> 00:49:10.050

  I'm sorry. I'm just messaged.

  998

  00:49:10.050 --> 00:49:12.250

  I would make a Duke the Dumpster

  999

  00:49:12.250 --> 00:49:14.790

  Drossie joke because I always have.

  1000

  00:49:14.870 --> 00:49:17.550

  And then he got arrested recently for something terrible.

  1001

  00:49:17.590 --> 00:49:20.050

  And I can't anymore. Oh.

  1002

  00:49:21.250 --> 00:49:23.390

  So Antoine, wrestling doesn't die as a whole.

  1003

  00:49:23.450 --> 00:49:24.570

  It dies in the West. Yeah.

  1004

  00:49:24.930 --> 00:49:27.650

  I think it has a period very similar to Britain.

  1005

  00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:30.470

  You know, what happened when World of Sport disappeared,

  1006

  00:49:31.370 --> 00:49:35.570

  where they went years without major wrestling promotion,

  1007

  00:49:35.650 --> 00:49:37.170

  having a big TV deal.

  1008

  00:49:38.390 --> 00:49:41.210

  They still had it, but they were doing like holiday camps

  1009

  00:49:41.210 --> 00:49:44.510

  and doing, you know, Danielson's like doing the holiday camps

  1010

  00:49:44.510 --> 00:49:47.750

  over there in the late or in the early 2000s.

  1011

  00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:50.650

  You know, because British Britain didn't have a wrestling scene

  1012

  00:49:50.650 --> 00:49:53.610

  that was of any acclaim for like 15 years.

  1013

  00:49:56.300 --> 00:49:58.800

  So here's a question from Antoine. Thank you.

  1014

  00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:02.300

  There is one person there who would be affected that I want to know

  1015

  00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:04.000

  what happens, Sean Michaels.

  1016

  00:50:05.160 --> 00:50:06.660

  When do the Rockers break up?

  1017

  00:50:08.600 --> 00:50:09.640

  Ninety one.

  1018

  00:50:10.220 --> 00:50:12.560

  When do they show up in 88?

  1019

  00:50:13.180 --> 00:50:14.680

  So they're brand new.

  1020

  00:50:15.040 --> 00:50:17.220

  So, I mean, to me, that.

  1021

  00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:20.940

  That stays the same up until they split.

  1022

  00:50:21.500 --> 00:50:24.300

  I know exactly what I would do because

  1023

  00:50:24.980 --> 00:50:27.660

  Sean and Marty weren't going to get along forever, right?

  1024

  00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:29.480

  And Sean was going to be Sean.

  1025

  00:50:30.080 --> 00:50:32.800

  Happens the exact same way it did. Sure.

  1026

  00:50:33.640 --> 00:50:35.980

  But you already have Rick Flair's replacement

  1027

  00:50:37.300 --> 00:50:39.320

  way before. Yeah.

  1028

  00:50:39.620 --> 00:50:40.560

  Sure. Sean Michaels.

  1029

  00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:44.260

  He ends up feuding with Rick Flair.

  1030

  00:50:44.500 --> 00:50:46.960

  Sure. Flair turns baby face.

  1031

  00:50:47.480 --> 00:50:49.890

  Michaels turns the horseman against him.

  1032

  00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.280

  Sure. New chapter begins.

  1033

  00:50:53.660 --> 00:50:55.340

  Arne Anderson is like his mentor.

  1034

  00:50:55.680 --> 00:50:58.380

  And this is all off the top of your head, which I do have to say,

  1035

  00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:01.380

  I'm not going to call you a genius, but I am impressed.

  1036

  00:51:02.020 --> 00:51:05.320

  Yeah. No, I think I think the horsemen turn on Flair.

  1037

  00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:08.740

  He becomes the old baby face guy who loses all the time.

  1038

  00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:12.140

  And Michaels becomes the next.

  1039

  00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:15.100

  Well, you have with the horsemen, you have this whole new avenue.

  1040

  00:51:15.220 --> 00:51:16.340

  Because, like, say, with the Heenan family,

  1041

  00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:19.420

  it's like Heenan's bringing people in to try to get rid of Hogan. Right.

  1042

  00:51:19.620 --> 00:51:22.720

  And with the horsemen, it's like you have this whole different setup

  1043

  00:51:22.720 --> 00:51:26.580

  for who you can insert in, pull out,

  1044

  00:51:26.580 --> 00:51:29.800

  you know, who's the new guy that you want to make the monster heal.

  1045

  00:51:32.570 --> 00:51:35.050

  Yeah, there's the it changes the whole dynamic.

  1046

  00:51:35.310 --> 00:51:37.430

  I think we just hit the same button. Yeah. Hot take.

  1047

  00:51:38.610 --> 00:51:40.450

  An 88 steamboat leaves WWF.

  1048

  00:51:40.530 --> 00:51:43.870

  I think steamboat go to Flair in 88 WWF for 21 people.

  1049

  00:51:44.050 --> 00:51:47.150

  Dynamite Kid or Blue Blazer, but an 89 that spot goes to Mr. Perfect.

  1050

  00:51:48.250 --> 00:51:50.430

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, that we kind of in the horsemen.

  1051

  00:51:50.490 --> 00:51:51.290

  Is that what you mean?

  1052

  00:51:52.830 --> 00:51:53.750

  Because, yeah, we did.

  1053

  00:51:53.950 --> 00:51:57.230

  Or it just becomes his like kind of like masterwork in ring

  1054

  00:51:57.230 --> 00:51:58.650

  you know. Sure.

  1055

  00:51:58.910 --> 00:52:03.890

  Yeah, I could I could see a Henig in Flair Feud somewhere in 89

  1056

  00:52:03.890 --> 00:52:06.510

  after a year of Henig maybe being the fourth horseman.

  1057

  00:52:06.850 --> 00:52:10.450

  Well, and I can see all these guys also headlining in.

  1058

  00:52:10.650 --> 00:52:14.570

  And if there are other promotions that are that are on the rise.

  1059

  00:52:15.590 --> 00:52:18.570

  Yeah, maybe Henning doesn't have a place in WWF and he goes over there.

  1060

  00:52:18.690 --> 00:52:22.390

  Maybe Shawn Michaels sees the WWF as being too overcrowded

  1061

  00:52:22.390 --> 00:52:25.350

  and doesn't see room at the top and he goes to somewhere else.

  1062

  00:52:25.790 --> 00:52:27.150

  Well, and that's kind of the thing.

  1063

  00:52:27.150 --> 00:52:31.390

  I think Vince also continues this cycle of bringing people in for runs

  1064

  00:52:31.390 --> 00:52:32.810

  and then cycling them out

  1065

  00:52:33.390 --> 00:52:37.290

  because there's so many others at his disposal, you know,

  1066

  00:52:37.850 --> 00:52:41.730

  he doesn't have to have long term heels for years and years

  1067

  00:52:41.730 --> 00:52:44.950

  and years at a time unless it's like a Rick Flair or somebody

  1068

  00:52:44.950 --> 00:52:46.510

  at that elite level.

  1069

  00:52:46.790 --> 00:52:49.590

  Roddy Piper is probably never a baby face.

  1070

  00:52:49.610 --> 00:52:53.330

  He's probably well, people were going to make Piper a baby

  1071

  00:52:53.330 --> 00:52:55.290

  baby face, no matter what, you know what I mean?

  1072

  00:52:55.290 --> 00:52:58.570

  But, yeah, keep going, keep going.

  1073

  00:53:00.250 --> 00:53:02.470

  Piper says it flares in in 1988.

  1074

  00:53:02.570 --> 00:53:05.450

  Flair does number three at 89 Royal Rumble and wins three years

  1075

  00:53:05.450 --> 00:53:07.590

  before 92 Royal Rumble. Very possible.

  1076

  00:53:08.190 --> 00:53:10.370

  And that's another thing is.

  1077

  00:53:10.710 --> 00:53:13.610

  You don't eat maybe in this scenario,

  1078

  00:53:13.610 --> 00:53:16.270

  you never have a situation where the title is vacated

  1079

  00:53:16.270 --> 00:53:20.490

  and the rumble is for the title after the rumble was for the title,

  1080

  00:53:20.510 --> 00:53:23.190

  after Flair won it every year since then.

  1081

  00:53:23.190 --> 00:53:25.650

  The Royal Rumble has been for a shot

  1082

  00:53:25.650 --> 00:53:27.950

  at the at the world title at WrestleMania, right?

  1083

  00:53:28.150 --> 00:53:29.750

  Maybe that never happens.

  1084

  00:53:29.910 --> 00:53:32.190

  And that whole episode we did two weeks ago

  1085

  00:53:32.190 --> 00:53:33.610

  doesn't make make any sense.

  1086

  00:53:33.630 --> 00:53:34.790

  It doesn't matter anymore.

  1087

  00:53:35.050 --> 00:53:37.730

  Well, or or it just doesn't happen till later.

  1088

  00:53:37.830 --> 00:53:40.950

  You know, I mean, it at least is given a few more years

  1089

  00:53:40.950 --> 00:53:45.430

  to not start homogenizing the entire approach to

  1090

  00:53:46.010 --> 00:53:48.050

  Blair Line makes a great point.

  1091

  00:53:48.130 --> 00:53:50.610

  And I would like you to elaborate a little bit on this, Joe,

  1092

  00:53:50.610 --> 00:53:52.170

  if you could, hopefully in this scenario,

  1093

  00:53:52.170 --> 00:53:55.150

  the U.S. doesn't have to deal with tribute shows like we did.

  1094

  00:53:55.450 --> 00:53:57.330

  What do you mean by tribute shows exactly?

  1095

  00:53:58.270 --> 00:54:01.110

  I think I might know, but I want to I want to make sure

  1096

  00:54:01.110 --> 00:54:02.890

  I understand properly.

  1097

  00:54:04.850 --> 00:54:06.870

  Skewered Universe recognizing game over here.

  1098

  00:54:06.930 --> 00:54:08.290

  It's pretty interesting having Michaels

  1099

  00:54:08.290 --> 00:54:09.510

  head up the horseman.

  1100

  00:54:09.810 --> 00:54:11.950

  And then eventually it sounds like something he'd say.

  1101

  00:54:12.210 --> 00:54:14.830

  A new generation of horsemen, you know, like it's sure.

  1102

  00:54:15.310 --> 00:54:17.710

  It's not like he's going to run around with Arn and Tolley forever.

  1103

  00:54:17.950 --> 00:54:19.510

  Yeah, he could have a new generation of horsemen.

  1104

  00:54:19.510 --> 00:54:24.230

  It could be Razor, Ramon, Diesel, Shawn Michaels.

  1105

  00:54:25.490 --> 00:54:28.430

  Yeah, triple a arch, right?

  1106

  00:54:28.990 --> 00:54:29.810

  You know. Oh, sorry.

  1107

  00:54:29.890 --> 00:54:31.750

  I just hit this button on this light and all of a sudden

  1108

  00:54:31.750 --> 00:54:33.870

  I'm super illuminated now.

  1109

  00:54:33.990 --> 00:54:38.350

  You looked so moody earlier and now it's better.

  1110

  00:54:38.410 --> 00:54:39.250

  I don't know what happened.

  1111

  00:54:39.630 --> 00:54:40.870

  I don't know. I don't know.

  1112

  00:54:40.890 --> 00:54:42.130

  It's all fuzzy now.

  1113

  00:54:42.210 --> 00:54:43.230

  You'll divide, bro.

  1114

  00:54:43.390 --> 00:54:44.310

  Whatever. Sorry.

  1115

  00:54:44.510 --> 00:54:47.330

  I was going for like a kind of a sensual vibe.

  1116

  00:54:47.370 --> 00:54:48.310

  How's that? Is that better?

  1117

  00:54:48.950 --> 00:54:50.590

  No, I'm sorry.

  1118

  00:54:50.710 --> 00:54:53.130

  Once one says, yeah, I agree with Professor Piper

  1119

  00:54:53.130 --> 00:54:55.150

  was going to be a babyface, but maybe that legendary

  1120

  00:54:55.150 --> 00:54:56.730

  IC title doesn't happen.

  1121

  00:54:57.130 --> 00:54:57.810

  It's the world title.

  1122

  00:54:58.090 --> 00:55:01.510

  So let's get into that. So.

  1123

  00:55:01.770 --> 00:55:07.110

  This ends if Flair goes to WWF,

  1124

  00:55:07.730 --> 00:55:11.650

  you have to end the year long title reigns that are always.

  1125

  00:55:11.730 --> 00:55:12.230

  Oh, yeah.

  1126

  00:55:12.590 --> 00:55:15.290

  Just like AEW is doing right now,

  1127

  00:55:16.230 --> 00:55:19.090

  where guys are holding the belt for a month or three months

  1128

  00:55:19.090 --> 00:55:22.410

  or six, you know, but it's not a year like it was. Right.

  1129

  00:55:22.490 --> 00:55:24.470

  And they're on their way out at this point anyway.

  1130

  00:55:24.830 --> 00:55:26.030

  By 88, you know.

  1131

  00:55:26.090 --> 00:55:29.650

  Yeah, you just can't do it like Hogan can't be champion

  1132

  00:55:29.650 --> 00:55:30.530

  for a year.

  1133

  00:55:30.730 --> 00:55:32.390

  Savage champion for a year.

  1134

  00:55:32.850 --> 00:55:37.090

  You know, so you have the belt moving around a lot more sooner.

  1135

  00:55:37.410 --> 00:55:40.430

  And I think you build up more guys

  1136

  00:55:40.430 --> 00:55:43.730

  who can carry the fucking company.

  1137

  00:55:43.730 --> 00:55:47.910

  When Hogan eventually really Peters out.

  1138

  00:55:48.470 --> 00:55:50.750

  Yeah. So maybe then we end up with a WWF

  1139

  00:55:50.750 --> 00:55:54.010

  that isn't based around one big top guy

  1140

  00:55:54.010 --> 00:55:55.350

  and then a bunch of guys trickling.

  1141

  00:55:55.350 --> 00:55:59.490

  Maybe it's the way we see AEW now or every other promotion

  1142

  00:55:59.490 --> 00:56:02.850

  in the entire world where guys kind of come in and out

  1143

  00:56:02.850 --> 00:56:05.350

  of that top spot, you know, and a lot of different guys

  1144

  00:56:05.350 --> 00:56:06.550

  get a chance.

  1145

  00:56:06.550 --> 00:56:09.450

  And you don't have that overkill where you're,

  1146

  00:56:09.450 --> 00:56:11.730

  you know, really, Hogan is replication of Bruno.

  1147

  00:56:11.730 --> 00:56:13.930

  You know, I mean, Vince McMahon,

  1148

  00:56:13.930 --> 00:56:15.790

  senior is the guy who made that template.

  1149

  00:56:17.430 --> 00:56:20.410

  So blurry line says tribute shows were when the UK scene

  1150

  00:56:20.410 --> 00:56:21.650

  had absolutely no star.

  1151

  00:56:21.690 --> 00:56:24.230

  So wrestlers would run bootleg WWF shows

  1152

  00:56:24.230 --> 00:56:27.190

  with wrestlers posing as WWF wrestlers.

  1153

  00:56:27.270 --> 00:56:30.030

  Oh, yeah, that's what I thought you meant. So.

  1154

  00:56:31.010 --> 00:56:32.830

  Yeah, that's a terrible idea.

  1155

  00:56:33.070 --> 00:56:36.130

  Oh, is that where you get guys like Cold Stone,

  1156

  00:56:36.250 --> 00:56:37.810

  Austin Stevens? Yes, yes.

  1157

  00:56:38.070 --> 00:56:41.070

  You get you get guys doing impressions of famous gimmicks.

  1158

  00:56:41.070 --> 00:56:41.790

  Yes.

  1159

  00:56:42.090 --> 00:56:45.310

  Skewered Universe says Four Horsemen Wolf Pack would be

  1160

  00:56:46.070 --> 00:56:49.370

  the thing. But yeah, I mean, how, you know.

  1161

  00:56:49.450 --> 00:56:51.230

  Oh, my God. Right.

  1162

  00:56:51.750 --> 00:56:55.330

  So, yeah. So basically, wrestling is totally changed

  1163

  00:56:55.330 --> 00:56:58.510

  by this one thing. Sure.

  1164

  00:56:59.810 --> 00:57:03.330

  One move changes and it reshuffles the entire deck,

  1165

  00:57:03.390 --> 00:57:06.570

  which I think speaks to the importance of both Ted Turner.

  1166

  00:57:07.810 --> 00:57:08.450

  Absolutely.

  1167

  00:57:08.450 --> 00:57:12.910

  Rick Flair, really, you know, at the time.

  1168

  00:57:13.810 --> 00:57:16.330

  And you get the Hogan Flair feud

  1169

  00:57:16.330 --> 00:57:19.910

  in the middle of their primes instead of years after.

  1170

  00:57:20.030 --> 00:57:23.130

  And you actually, yeah, you actually get a proper feud

  1171

  00:57:23.130 --> 00:57:26.310

  because by the time it happened in WCW after that,

  1172

  00:57:26.430 --> 00:57:28.410

  I've got I've got no purpose for that.

  1173

  00:57:28.410 --> 00:57:29.090

  No. It's terrible.

  1174

  00:57:29.570 --> 00:57:32.990

  I mean, that's that doesn't even it almost doesn't even count.

  1175

  00:57:32.990 --> 00:57:33.990

  You know.

  1176

  00:57:35.670 --> 00:57:37.590

  Here, it says we need to do an episode of

  1177

  00:57:37.590 --> 00:57:39.810

  into the rest of the verse of what if Timeless Tony Storm

  1178

  00:57:39.810 --> 00:57:43.470

  joins WWE in a big signing like Cody Rhodes in twenty twenty two?

  1179

  00:57:44.330 --> 00:57:48.550

  Maybe it's the thing about that is wasn't when was she in?

  1180

  00:57:49.470 --> 00:57:50.770

  When was she in WWE?

  1181

  00:57:51.370 --> 00:57:54.630

  She left in twenty twenty two or twenty twenty one.

  1182

  00:57:54.630 --> 00:57:55.830

  I think she got released. Yeah.

  1183

  00:57:55.870 --> 00:57:57.910

  OK. Like, oh, let out of her contract.

  1184

  00:57:58.290 --> 00:58:00.970

  I think the problem, though, is she would never be able to do

  1185

  00:58:00.970 --> 00:58:02.470

  what she does in WWE.

  1186

  00:58:02.830 --> 00:58:06.530

  It just wouldn't happen. One thing, in my opinion.

  1187

  00:58:09.310 --> 00:58:10.330

  Blurring line says we're all muted.

  1188

  00:58:10.330 --> 00:58:12.010

  Are we? Can you hear us?

  1189

  00:58:12.430 --> 00:58:14.910

  I can hear me. I can hear you.

  1190

  00:58:15.050 --> 00:58:16.550

  No. Yeah, yeah.

  1191

  00:58:16.850 --> 00:58:19.150

  Maybe you've got the mute button on Blurring Line.

  1192

  00:58:19.370 --> 00:58:20.570

  You're talking about that.

  1193

  00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:23.990

  Did you mute us? Fucking Christ. Jesus Christ.

  1194

  00:58:24.370 --> 00:58:27.350

  What if the WWF felt into dire straits and Turner

  1195

  00:58:27.350 --> 00:58:30.470

  purchased WWF from Vince like bought it out completely?

  1196

  00:58:30.470 --> 00:58:34.390

  I mean, how realistic scenario to envision given this whole thing

  1197

  00:58:34.390 --> 00:58:36.450

  at some point in the late 90s.

  1198

  00:58:36.570 --> 00:58:38.130

  Vince wants to get the fuck out of wrestling.

  1199

  00:58:39.510 --> 00:58:42.170

  Well, yeah. Or he needs the backing.

  1200

  00:58:43.630 --> 00:58:45.250

  And man, well, whatever.

  1201

  00:58:45.830 --> 00:58:47.150

  So there's one more.

  1202

  00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:50.530

  There's another option that I think is worth exploring.

  1203

  00:58:51.830 --> 00:58:55.110

  If we've exhausted these options and I don't know if we have.

  1204

  00:58:56.610 --> 00:58:57.790

  It's Vince McMahon.

  1205

  00:58:57.790 --> 00:58:59.510

  It's 1988.

  1206

  00:58:59.730 --> 00:59:02.330

  And I know it's a little bit early on the timeline.

  1207

  00:59:03.670 --> 00:59:06.010

  But Blade, I know I'm annoying the shit out of you with this one.

  1208

  00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:08.130

  But I got to call this the polka dot road.

  1209

  00:59:08.470 --> 00:59:11.170

  We might have to take a walk down the polka dot road because.

  1210

  00:59:11.630 --> 00:59:12.630

  Polka dot road, baby.

  1211

  00:59:12.710 --> 00:59:14.630

  I think you know what the polka dot road is, baby.

  1212

  00:59:14.630 --> 00:59:17.430

  And I think you know who walked that road and who walked that line.

  1213

  00:59:17.630 --> 00:59:19.190

  And that's the American dream, Dusty Rhodes.

  1214

  00:59:19.310 --> 00:59:21.990

  And you took a dude that was the baddest

  1215

  00:59:23.130 --> 00:59:27.150

  American dream, people's champ, the hardest working man.

  1216

  00:59:27.150 --> 00:59:31.010

  And you turned him into a dude who wore fucking polka dots and danced.

  1217

  00:59:31.270 --> 00:59:32.810

  And he still managed to get it over.

  1218

  00:59:32.990 --> 00:59:37.190

  But in a world of red roosters, gobbledygookers,

  1219

  00:59:38.030 --> 00:59:39.590

  Dukes the Dumpster Drossies.

  1220

  00:59:40.970 --> 00:59:44.690

  There's a whole lot of bad paths that this could have taken.

  1221

  00:59:45.110 --> 00:59:50.630

  You could have had Arn and Tully and Barry dressed up like cowboys

  1222

  00:59:50.630 --> 00:59:53.850

  wearing little cowboy hats, riding horses to the ring.

  1223

  00:59:53.850 --> 00:59:56.410

  You could have had a whole terrible.

  1224

  00:59:57.030 --> 00:59:59.270

  You could have had Zeus in the fucking horsemen.

  1225

  00:59:59.810 --> 01:00:01.370

  If I need to say it again,

  1226

  01:00:01.670 --> 01:00:04.390

  there's a lot of different paths that could have taken.

  1227

  01:00:04.950 --> 01:00:08.410

  And I don't know if anybody has any guesses.

  1228

  01:00:08.670 --> 01:00:10.250

  Throw them up in the chat, I guess.

  1229

  01:00:10.810 --> 01:00:12.630

  I have a question for the audience.

  1230

  01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:16.760

  Who's better at this?

  1231

  01:00:17.160 --> 01:00:19.980

  You got degree booking Zeus into the four horsemen.

  1232

  01:00:20.120 --> 01:00:22.700

  You got me having Shawn Michaels overtake Rick Flair

  1233

  01:00:22.700 --> 01:00:27.070

  and carry on the horsemen for decades.

  1234

  01:00:27.390 --> 01:00:28.250

  Here's the thing, Blade.

  1235

  01:00:29.490 --> 01:00:33.170

  In the world of professional wrestling, there's what we'd all love to happen.

  1236

  01:00:33.310 --> 01:00:36.350

  There's our own fantasy booking, and I admire your fantasy booking.

  1237

  01:00:36.510 --> 01:00:38.190

  It's the same thing I would have done

  1238

  01:00:38.190 --> 01:00:41.270

  playing a wrestling video game when I was 13 years old.

  1239

  01:00:41.370 --> 01:00:45.450

  And then you also have the hardened, cynical world

  1240

  01:00:45.450 --> 01:00:50.490

  of a 49 year old man who's lived through it all, who's seen it, who's seen

  1241

  01:00:51.170 --> 01:00:55.930

  Bastion Booger and the headbangers dressed up like nuns.

  1242

  01:00:56.950 --> 01:00:57.890

  I've seen meat.

  1243

  01:00:58.410 --> 01:01:00.130

  You know who meat is.

  1244

  01:01:00.330 --> 01:01:01.990

  You know what Sean Stasiak did.

  1245

  01:01:03.090 --> 01:01:04.410

  What do you really?

  1246

  01:01:04.590 --> 01:01:07.990

  It would be wonderful to think, oh, if Vince McMahon had the four horsemen,

  1247

  01:01:08.170 --> 01:01:10.510

  he would he would have created the four horsemen in the WWF,

  1248

  01:01:10.570 --> 01:01:12.210

  but he probably wouldn't have.

  1249

  01:01:12.510 --> 01:01:14.550

  He probably would have made them into ice cream men.

  1250

  01:01:14.750 --> 01:01:17.970

  You know, he would have done something super effing stupid.

  1251

  01:01:18.490 --> 01:01:22.410

  Here it says Tony left WWE in 2021 because of Vince,

  1252

  01:01:22.410 --> 01:01:23.910

  but Triple H was a big fan of Tony.

  1253

  01:01:23.950 --> 01:01:27.290

  HHH was in bad condition in 2021 with the hard stuff.

  1254

  01:01:27.290 --> 01:01:31.170

  I believe if Tony was in WWE in July 2022, things will be different.

  1255

  01:01:31.190 --> 01:01:34.510

  So you're not saying after she becomes timeless in AEW,

  1256

  01:01:34.510 --> 01:01:39.910

  she goes to WWE because timeless didn't start till 2023, I believe.

  1257

  01:01:40.230 --> 01:01:42.810

  And then. I mean, I don't know.

  1258

  01:01:43.010 --> 01:01:45.290

  I really don't know how they would have used her.

  1259

  01:01:45.470 --> 01:01:47.890

  I look at how they use the women's roster currently.

  1260

  01:01:47.970 --> 01:01:50.570

  Not to say AEW does a great job, but.

  1261

  01:01:52.070 --> 01:01:54.290

  I just don't see her being given the platform

  1262

  01:01:54.290 --> 01:01:58.830

  to really establish herself in the same way, based on how the leeway

  1263

  01:01:58.830 --> 01:02:02.790

  to be that character, you know, she certainly would never become timeless.

  1264

  01:02:02.790 --> 01:02:04.690

  Tony Storm in WWE, I just don't see.

  1265

  01:02:04.790 --> 01:02:06.170

  I don't think so. No, no.

  1266

  01:02:06.570 --> 01:02:08.610

  I don't think they would have allowed her that.

  1267

  01:02:09.070 --> 01:02:12.530

  That's your universe also says, imagine a world with no billionaire

  1268

  01:02:12.530 --> 01:02:15.570

  VKM, maybe that prevents so many gross things happening later on.

  1269

  01:02:16.990 --> 01:02:20.730

  Could be, I'm pretty sure he was pretty fucking nasty back then, too, though.

  1270

  01:02:20.930 --> 01:02:22.130

  Oh, I think he was pretty terrible.

  1271

  01:02:22.430 --> 01:02:24.130

  But there would have been less of them.

  1272

  01:02:24.270 --> 01:02:26.290

  He had the capacity to hurt less people.

  1273

  01:02:26.490 --> 01:02:29.950

  Yes. Right. And the and he had the money to hurt less people, I guess.

  1274

  01:02:30.570 --> 01:02:33.190

  Yes. Yeah, here you go, screwed universe.

  1275

  01:02:33.910 --> 01:02:37.150

  If we never get WCW, we'd never have bitch off.

  1276

  01:02:37.450 --> 01:02:38.510

  Yeah. Yeah.

  1277

  01:02:38.610 --> 01:02:42.350

  I mean, Beric Bischoff might just be a male model in Sears

  1278

  01:02:42.350 --> 01:02:45.550

  catalog somewhere, you know, he'd be doing like.

  1279

  01:02:46.850 --> 01:02:48.350

  Fucking LL Bean.

  1280

  01:02:48.710 --> 01:02:49.990

  Fuck. Yeah, you know.

  1281

  01:02:50.090 --> 01:02:54.450

  Well, I mean, you think about how many when you if you don't have WCW,

  1282

  01:02:54.470 --> 01:02:56.510

  that's the thing we're sitting here thinking about all these

  1283

  01:02:56.510 --> 01:02:57.410

  changes that could have made.

  1284

  01:02:57.490 --> 01:03:00.830

  But if you don't have WCW, does Steve Austin have a platform?

  1285

  01:03:01.150 --> 01:03:02.770

  Does Raven have a platform?

  1286

  01:03:03.070 --> 01:03:04.590

  You know what I mean? Like.

  1287

  01:03:05.970 --> 01:03:09.330

  She's in both WWE and WCW.

  1288

  01:03:09.790 --> 01:03:10.610

  Right, right.

  1289

  01:03:11.010 --> 01:03:14.070

  But if he doesn't have that, you know, maybe he doesn't make the.

  1290

  01:03:14.070 --> 01:03:16.410

  I don't know how him and Heyman, how everything worked out.

  1291

  01:03:16.590 --> 01:03:20.510

  But like, let's say he doesn't make that connection with Heyman and WCW

  1292

  01:03:20.510 --> 01:03:22.550

  and it doesn't carry over to ECW.

  1293

  01:03:23.830 --> 01:03:24.590

  What is your line?

  1294

  01:03:24.730 --> 01:03:27.150

  That's where I was going to teach yourself karate VHS.

  1295

  01:03:29.150 --> 01:03:31.850

  That's absolutely that's absolutely what he would do.

  1296

  01:03:32.430 --> 01:03:33.450

  That's hilarious.

  1297

  01:03:35.810 --> 01:03:38.430

  Yeah, so I don't know.

  1298

  01:03:38.630 --> 01:03:41.950

  That's our trip into the wrestle versus the wrestlers, people.

  1299

  01:03:44.290 --> 01:03:47.150

  There's a lot of doorways, there's a lot of little what ifs,

  1300

  01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:50.690

  there's a lot of little times that if one thing had happened differently,

  1301

  01:03:52.370 --> 01:03:53.810

  what's the snowball effect?

  1302

  01:03:53.830 --> 01:03:55.730

  What's the ripple effect of the butterfly effect?

  1303

  01:03:55.770 --> 01:03:59.910

  We'll definitely be revisiting this idea in future episodes.

  1304

  01:04:01.970 --> 01:04:05.470

  Less than if you have an idea for the wrestle verse,

  1305

  01:04:05.610 --> 01:04:09.590

  hit us up at pro wrestling forever pod at Gmail dot com

  1306

  01:04:09.590 --> 01:04:13.390

  and let us know, give us that hypothetical situation that

  1307

  01:04:13.390 --> 01:04:17.230

  you what what would the wrestling landscape look like if it happened?

  1308

  01:04:17.710 --> 01:04:22.670

  And let us use our brilliant imaginations to try to figure it out.

  1309

  01:04:26.780 --> 01:04:28.460

  All right, everybody, thank you all so much.

  1310

  01:04:28.660 --> 01:04:29.580

  This has been a lot of fun.

  1311

  01:04:29.640 --> 01:04:31.240

  I hope you had fun too.

  1312

  01:04:31.240 --> 01:04:34.360

  We'll be back next Monday with books and we're going to watch.

  1313

  01:04:35.200 --> 01:04:39.420

  We'll have watched SummerSlam 1988 and we will review it.

  1314

  01:04:39.420 --> 01:04:42.460

  Join me this Friday with books to talk about

  1315

  01:04:43.100 --> 01:04:44.980

  whatever happens this week on AEW.

  1316

  01:04:44.980 --> 01:04:46.900

  That's right. Go then.

  1317

  01:04:47.100 --> 01:04:48.660

  There are other worlds than these.

  1318

  01:04:49.860 --> 01:04:51.000

  This is Pro Wrestling 4.